Saturday, September 06, 2008

Armed Forces grievance to Prime Minister

In a rare departure, Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta has taken the Armed Forces grievance on the pay panel to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. The Admiral, who is also Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee, met the PM late on Thursday night and brought up ‘core issues’ in the pay commission relating to lowering of pay scales of Defence personnel in comparison to their civilian counterparts.

It is learnt that while Mehta visited the PM to brief him on his recent visits to Japan and South Korea, the issue of anomalies in the pay commission that has led to the ‘lowering of status of Defence officers and men’ was brought up at the end of the meeting.

The Navy chief handed over a detailed representation to the Prime Minister highlighting the perceived anomalies and once again sought the intervention of the Union Cabinet to resolve the issues.

The incident may lead to a little embarrassment for the Defence Ministry that had earlier raised objections over a letter written by the Army Chief to President Pratibha Patil over the pay panel.

“The focus was on the core issues of lowering of status of Defence personnel that will infringe on operational aspects in the field where officers will need to interact with their civil counterparts,” a senior officer said.

The main problem being a lowering of parity of Lt Col and equivalent officers with their counterpart in the paramilitary forces. With the new pay panel norms, central paramilitary officers who were till now ranked lower to Armed Forces officers have been placed in a higher pay band.

On Monday, the three service chiefs had met Defence Minister A K Antony and urged him for the intervention of the Cabinet, rather than a committee to consider its demands on the pay panel report.

In a letter to the Defence Minister, Mehta had said any disruption in the existing parities of pay would lead to serious operational problems for the Armed Forces whenever they would need to work along with paramilitary and civilian officers.

The Armed Forces are angry over the ‘degradation’ of officers of the rank of Lt Cols who have been placed in the Pay Band 3, a grade lower than the PB 4 that their civilian counterparts have been given. They have also demanded that Lt Gen rank officers should be put in the new Pay Band of Higher Administrative Grade (HAG) Plus, in which Director General level officers of civil services and paramilitary have been placed.

(Indian Express Delhi edition 06/09/08)

56 comments:

  1. The simple solution could be by placing S-21(12000-375-16500), S-22(12750-375-16500) & S-23 (12000-375-18000) in PB-4. The Pay Band of PB-4 may be changed as 31400-67000. The Grade Pay of S-21,S-22 and S-23 may be kept same as Rs.7600, and for S-24, S-25 same as Rs.8700, and so on.
    At present, there seems to be an error made by govt. while making notification, as the designations and work of Rs.12000 scale and Rs.14300 scale are same.
    All concerned may plese pursue the matter so that the error may be got rectified.

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  2. Anonymous4:42 PM

    The bureaucrats are playing a dirty game by constantly harassing the armed forces by their concerted efforts to lower the status and pay of armed forces personnel as compared to their civil counterparts. When will the government realise the game plan and give justice due to the armed forces?

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  3. Anonymous6:10 PM

    Sunils's solution is no solution as it would further create more anomolies.Solution lies in keeping the pre 6th commission basic pay scale parties between the various levels of armed forces and the para military forces .The basic pay of armed forces officers was split in two parts namely basic pay and the rank pay.

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  4. Anonymous6:43 PM

    The anamoly needs to be sorted out along with the involvement of the repsof all affectd parties.It should not be left to the swt will of Govt alone.

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  5. Anonymous6:50 PM

    The stand taken by the Service chiefs needs to be applauded.

    The matter is important and must be correctly and quickly addressed instead of leaving it open ended.

    The evil designs of a mischievous, ungrateful, selfish and unaware bureaucracy must be defeated.

    These gentlemen have chosen to use the responsibility of working out a fair compensation to all given to them in their own interest is regrettable. And they'll enjoy their pizzas at the cost of livelihood and plight of the officers and soldiers who toil through their lives in the service of the nation. They know nothing of life in the services.. and think they are educated to talk about us.

    And when servicemen speak for their rights, these "educated" gentlemen speak of ethics !!!

    Danger is, they do this all the time.

    The interest of the nation comes last.. all the time.. and they don't even feel it...

    JAI HIND.

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  6. Ramani9:19 PM

    one more thing,
    In the "USA" whenever an officer be it the "reserve or regular" retires , a letter of appreciation for services rendered is sent by all concerned down the chain from the defence secretary onwards.
    this definetley is a moral booster.
    I wish the india govt takes aleaf out of this book and do accordingly.

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  7. Anonymous11:51 PM

    paddy,

    I, am sorry to say that the chiefs are taking their's & counterparts status as paramount. If one goes by the past PCs it will be always found that the Offrs have projected their greviences more than their sub ordinates. How could the chief say to the Govt. that it can go ahead with the PCs recommendations & implement it for the PBORs, as they are satisfied with it' as there is 50-60% increase in PBORs salary. Ask him to give an example where by it shows the mentioned % increase.
    JAI HIND

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  8. Anonymous11:58 PM

    paddy,

    I, am sorry to say that the chiefs are taking their's & counterparts status as paramount. If one goes by the past PCs it will be always found that the Offrs have projected their greviences more than their sub ordinates. How could the chief say to the Govt. that it can go ahead with the PCs recommendations & implement it for the PBORs, as they are satisfied with it' as there is 50-60% increase in PBORs salary. Ask him to give an example where by it shows the mentioned % increase.
    JAI HIND

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  9. Anonymous12:00 AM

    paddy,

    I, am sorry to say that the chiefs are taking their's & counterparts status as paramount. If one goes by the past PCs it will be always found that the Offrs have projected their greviences more than their sub ordinates. How could the chief say to the Govt. that it can go ahead with the PCs recommendations & implement it for the PBORs, as they are satisfied with it' as there is 50-60% increase in PBORs salary. Ask him to give an example where by it shows the mentioned % increase.
    JAI HIND

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  10. Anonymous9:44 AM

    there is an attempt to hide the wrongs done by the bueraucrats in widening the disparity brought in by the 6th pay commission for lt cols and s 25 scale by citing that lt cols are getting military service pay(MSP).One must understand that MSP has been given to armed forces personnel for the service conditions .One of which is the truncated careers.Lt Col is retired at 54 yrs in comparision to 60 yrs of retirement age of civilian counterparts.

    Lt cols were in the pay scale of 15100-400-18700 inclusive of the rank pay.dir (IAS) in pay band S 25 were in the scale 15100-400-18300.It can be seen that LT Cols had an edge in the scale.Now it is reversed Lat Col in pay band 3 and Dir in pay band 4.It is a shear non sense

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  11. when all group A officer will reach payband 4 in 12-14 years of service then why army officers should be denied that. can any body has answer?

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  12. Anonymous7:12 PM

    In the fifth pay commission, the Basic Pay of armed forces officers was split into two parts i.e., Basic Pay+Rank Pay. Both added together formed the actual Basic Pay i.e., in relation to the scale of pay of civilian counterparts. The basic pay of a Lt Col was fixed in S-24 scale and with rank pay added, automatically the scale reached S-25 which is the equivalent and correct scale for the Lt Cols in relation to their civilian counterparts. The armed forces agreed for this proposal of splitting the basic then as it did not lower the status of the officers as the rank pay was also considered as basic pay for all purposes.

    In the sixth pay commission, the rank pay was abolished and a grade pay was introduced according to the pay band for all categories of governement employees (Both military and civil). However while fixing the pay band for Lt Cols, the Rank Pay was ignored by the pay commission erroneously. Consequently the Lt Cols were put one band lower in PB-3 alongwith civilian officers of S-24 scale, who are one scale lower than the Lt Cols.This resulted in elevation of civilian officers who were earlier in S-25 scale and were considered equivalent in ranks to Lt Cols, prior to implementation of Sixth pay commission.

    This anamoly could have been rectified by the committee but it is ridiculous that it requires intervention of the Service Chiefs and the PM. For some unknown reasons, the armed forces are made to work overtime to prove this logic and re-invent the wheel for the sake of bureacrats.

    Even though the armed forces are fighting for their rightful place, they are projected in bad light in the eyes of the general public as greedy and selfish by some people. Truth shall prevail.

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  13. Anonymous8:00 PM

    Mr kartikeyen
    Gp A officer of central services becomes Director/SE after putting in more then 20 years service.
    Navy chief is putting all Protocol and rules on one side and approaching PM directly .Further their are news that for officers of armed forces they say 6pc will not be implemented as approved by govt.I f it is true then it is very shocking that for the service rendered they are putting country"s Govt to ransom.Do armed forces want to control politicians/interfere in politics.Hope they will not do that
    No body wants army rule here Democracy we are happy with.further Dir was always equivalent to Col of army.Pay commission put Col in PB3.Govt put them in PB4.Lt Col who has not faced a Single selection board how can be equated with Dir/SE a selection appointment.Tomorrow or in & pay commission they will say that Maj be raised to PB4.
    Wish better sense prevails in higher echelons of Armed Forces that they should not raise demand in unjustified manner by crossing proper channel

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  14. Refering to anonymous posted at 8:00 pm .The pay scales of Dir in S 25 and a Lt col were 15100-400-18300 and 15100-400-18700respectively.You may see that the scale of Lt Col after 5th pay commission was only little higher than S 25 scale.Then why the S 25 moves to pay band 4 whereas Lt Col is left in pay band 3.

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  15. http://www.indiantvtoday.com/unwilling-to-implement/2008/09/04/

    fullly agree with teh navy chief in going to the PM
    what s this channel being wrong thing in some comments
    do uthink the navy chief cant meet hte pm directly
    Ragini

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  16. Anonymous7:47 AM

    "The day the soldier has to demand his dues will be a sad day "

    "Over 80% of armed forces officers have to retire by the age of 54 !!!!"

    any comments now.. pb3 .. pb4 debate ..? hmm...

    armed forces are different.. "civil" services can never come close to being equated with the men in uniform...

    IT IS A SAD TIME FOR THE NATION ...

    BUT WE SHALL CONTINUE TO STRIVE.
    JAI HIND.

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  17. Anonymous8:42 AM

    when some one says that a Lt col is promoted very early to the rank one should not forget that Lt Col retires also early at the age of 54

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  18. @ anonymous
    Mr kartikeyen
    Gp A officer of central services becomes Director/SE after putting in more then 20 years service.
    Navy chief is putting all Protocol and rules on one side and approaching PM directly .Further their are news that for officers of armed forces they say 6pc will not be implemented as approved by govt.I f it is true then it is very shocking that for the service rendered they are putting country"s Govt to ransom.Do armed forces want to control politicians/interfere in politics.Hope they will not do that
    No body wants army rule here Democracy we are happy with.


    mr anonymous
    just check the details that how many years it takes to get into pay band 4 for any group one officer then talk.

    also just go and ask the men and woman on street whether they want the democracy like yours which you peoples are giving. it is the democracy of netas and babus and it is for them only.

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  19. Anonymous3:09 PM

    in 5th PC the Brigadiar's Basic Pay is 16700/= the Rank Pay is 2400 thus adding both the Brigadiar's basic pay is 19100/- whereas the Major General gets only the Basic pay 18400 and no Rank pay. Therefore the services should claim the Brigadiar as Senior officer than Major General since argument is based who draws more i.e the Lt Col's pay (13500+1600=5100) the Director's pay (14300/)based on the basic pay. The services should correct this anomaly before claiming status equalent with civilian counterparts.

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  20. Anonymous4:28 PM

    think we should reduce armd forces pay by 50%; watch 4 ten years and see what kind of men in uniform we produce. The result will be visible for all to see.Moreover Pak & China will be grateful to our policy makers for helping them achieve so much in so little time. The money saved can be put in other development projects; of course with below mark services to defend the national wealth.

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  21. Anonymous4:28 PM

    Manisha,

    The report says that
    " The revised rates of all allowances, such as House Rent Allowance,
    Transport Allowance, Children Education Allowance, Special Compensatory
    Allowance, Special Duty Allowance, Island Special Duty Allowance, Hard Duty
    Allowance, etc., will be paid prospectively w.e.f. 1.9.08. Accordingly, no arrears
    will be paid in respect of these allowances
    "


    I am staying in Mumbai and HRA is not revised i.e. it remains 30% as it is. So we are getting the arrears for HRA also.


    (please reply my question )

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  22. Anonymous4:30 PM

    think we should reduce armd forces pay by 50%; watch 4 ten years and see what kind of men in uniform we produce. The result will be visible for all to see.Moreover Pak & China will be grateful to our policy makers for helping them achieve so much in so little time. The money saved can be put in other development projects; of course with below mark services to defend the national wealth.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Anonymous4:33 PM

    Every calculator does not shows the HRA arrears for the A1 city which the percentage remains same

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anonymous5:57 PM

    Mr Anonymous,

    Thanks for inflating the 5th Pay commission scale for the Brigadier. For your information, the scale of a Brigadier in fifth pay commission was 15350-17600+2400(Rank Pay). Whereas the scale of a Maj Gen was 18400-22400 without any rank pay. If you do your mental calculations you will realise that at the lowest of the scale of a Brig ie., 15350+2400 equals to only 17750 that is less than the lowest pay of a Maj Gen(18400)and at the highest end of pay scale for a Brig ie., 17600+2400 ie., 20000 is again less than the Maj Gen's highest end of the pay scale ie., 22400. In which organisation a junior officer gets more pay than the senior officer? Anyway thanks for giving the interesting news that as you go up in the ladder the pay keeps reducing.

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  25. Anonymous9:35 PM

    MR ajay
    rank pay is not counted for status.It is only for allowances
    Pls check MOD letter
    otherwise Maj Gen will become junior to Brig
    Rank pay to compensate for early retirement and other service condition
    Pls do not get confused otherwise Maj Gen will have to report to Brig

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  26. Anonymous9:38 PM

    mr Kartikeyen
    I am talking of all engg services and central services where it is taking more than 20 years to get to Dir rank
    U are only comparing with IAS IFS

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous10:19 PM

    very strange to rad few comments. good thing is that he realised that we need democracy and no army rule but he forgot that the same democracy is because of the soldiers who are guarding the borders wih their lives. so strange that he could nt see that. i think Naval Cheif did one mistake that while approaching PM he should have given a proposal that all those Maj/Lt Col who are unhappy with the Pay Commission should be allowd to retire voluntarily. And then let the babus take over from them.

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  28. @Anonymous for HRA Arears,

    You will not get arrear for HRA. It will be with computer @30% with effect from 01/09/08 only on new pay basic pay.

    Better if you consult your DDO/ Accounts Officer in this regard.

    Manisha

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  29. Anonymous11:11 PM

    Disparity in the scales of army officers and paramilitary officers arisen due to unjust raising of S25 scale has stirred the storm.If some one understands the functioing of army he would know that it is a rank and seniority based structure which is essential for the functioning of armed forces.Any change in the relative seniority of ranks in armed forces vis-a-vis paramilitary forces would prove to be disastrous.hope good sense prevails amongst the policy makers and policy twisters(that is our bureaucrats)

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  30. Anonymous8:49 AM

    Rank pay existing in the armed forces is part of the basic pay.In the implementation of the 5th pay commision a common mutiplication factor(MF) was there for all the scales of central Govt personnel.for civilian the new basic was arrived as follows :-
    new basic= (old basic * MF)

    As rank pay was exclusive for the armed forces in 5th pay commission ,the fixation of pay was done in the following manner;--

    new basic= (old basic * MF) - Rank pay.So let there be no doubt in any ones mind that rank pay had been the part of basic for the armed forces

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  31. Anonymous12:59 PM

    No necessity to make this type of comparison always. Civil Service is always in a higher place than Armed Forces services. If a person gets selected both in IAS and Armed Forces, I don’t think that he will go to Armed Forces. It is a truth which everybody knows. Then, why this comparison every time? Nobody is insisting people to go to Armed Forces instead of IAS. In a country like India, the claim of shortage is a false. A huge number of people are ready to join Armed Forces. Government should go for a thorough checking on the recruitment procedure of Armed Force Personnel, why the shortage is coming when a good amount of people are ready to join the service. If you do not believe this, check the places, where the selection activities are done, then comment on this. SELECTION AUTHORITIES ARE INTENTIONALLY RECRUITING LESS NUMBER OF OFFICERS TO STRESS THEIR CLAIM OF TALENTED SHORTAGE. Corruption is there in Armed Forces also. Since the media is not entered much into that, it grows like anything.

    Struggle is there everywhere. Wherever you work, the biggest problem in that field is the biggest problem for you. You naturally involve in that. When you join service, you know that I have to fight for the country, I may be sent to risky areas. That is the part of the job. So it is not correct to say that I am doing this and that, they are only doing this much. People don’t know anything about Armed Forces. They only know the life is touch. But most of these tough situation is borne by a separate part of people who are really in front of danger. There are many people who enjoys at the cost of others life. Out of these lakhs of people in all three Forces, how many people had face to face fight in Kargil? Hence, my opinion is, everybody should get the normal salaries and those who are working in risky areas should get good allowance as per the degree of risk.

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  32. Anonymous9:42 PM

    in 5th PC the Brigadiar's Basic Pay is 16700/= the Rank Pay is 2400 thus adding both the Brigadiar's basic pay is 19100/- whereas the Major General gets only the Basic pay 18400 and no Rank pay. Therefore the services should claim the Brigadiar as Senior officer than Major General since argument is based who draws more i.e the Lt Col's pay (13500+1600=5100) the Director's pay (14300/)based on the basic pay. The services should correct this anomaly before claiming status equalent with civilian counterparts.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Anonymous10:07 PM

    It is unfortunate that the service chiefs have gone to the extent of telling utter lies that the 6th pay commission has downgraded the rank of the LtCol vis a vis Civilian officers. The Lt Col is always till now has been equated with JAG/JointDirector/ Scientist-D who are in the pay scale of 12000-16500. The 6th pay commission has not made any anomaly. There is clear cut letter of MOD that the rank pay should not be taken for determining the status. Further in 5th PC the Brigadiar's Basic Pay is 16700/= the Rank Pay is 2400 thus adding both the Brigadiar's basic pay is 19100/- whereas the Major General gets only the Basic pay 18400 and no Rank pay. Therefore the services should claim the Brigadiar as Senior officer than Major General since argument is based who draws more i.e the Lt Col's pay (13500+1600=5100) the Director's pay (14300/)based on the basic pay. The services should correct this anomaly before claiming status equalent with civilian counterparts. Therefore it is requested that the service cheiefs should refrain from making such false claims.

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  34. Anonymous6:07 AM

    Rank pay existing in the armed forces is part of the basic pay as explained earler.In the implementation of the 5th pay commision a common mutiplication factor(MF) was there for all the scales of central Govt personnel.for civilian the new basic was arrived as follows :-
    new basic= (old basic * MF)

    The rank pay was given for the armed forces in 5th pay commission but not as the additional pay.It was carved out of their existing pay by reducing their new basic by the amount of rank pay admisible to the rank.The fixation of pay post 5th pay commission was done in the following manner;--

    new basic= (old basic * MF) - Rank pay.

    ReplyDelete
  35. dinesh4:44 PM

    Mr Anonymous I have strong reasons to suspect your allegience to the cause of ISI. I am sure if beaureucrats are dopne away with the administration would be a lot better and then lets reduce your salary by 80% and see how many people come into it.

    It is misfortune of the nation if the beaureucrats who have run away from all conflict situation, are into corruption in a big way get to comment with ease for they have controlled commissions after comissions. Shame on anonymous who does not even have the guts to name himself. Pity you but do think of us when you, your wife n children are in danger for we will surely come n save you more so when Police and your pown kith and kin have run away.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anonymous10:07 PM

    CIVIL ADMN IN INDIA IS ONLY APT AT TAKING BRIBES,NOT DOING THEIR JOB AND CREATING CHAOS AND WHEN A DISASTER OCCURS THYEY IMDTLY RUN TO ONLY ONE AGENCY AND THAT IS DEFENCE FORCES.IT IS TRUE AND CAN BE SEEN HAPPENING EVERYWHERE EVERYTIME WHETHER 'BABUS' LIKE TO ACCEPT IT OR NOT.DO I NEED TO SITE EXAMPLES? WELL,TRY TO RECOLLECT EVENTS LIKE FIRES IN KOLKATA ETC PERPETUAL FLOODS IN BIHAR,ASSAM AND ANY OTHER,INTERNAL SECURITY,EVEN A CHILD FALLING IN A PIT.I MEAN THERE IS A LIMIT.IN RECENT FLOODS IN BIHAR HOW MANY 'BABUS' DID ONE SEE WORKING TO SALVAGE THE SITUATION (WHICH IN ANY CASE WAS THERE OWN CREATION DUE TO GREED /CORRUPTION OR INEFFICIENCY/INCOMPETENCE)?WHY SHOULD ARMY BE ALWAYS CLEARING THE MUCK CREATED BY THE CIVIL ADMN AND NETAS?IS THIS YOUR IDEA OF DEMOCRACY?WELL,LET THERE BE A SYSTEM OF DEDUCTING PAY OF INEFFICINT 'BABUS' AND THE SAME BE GIVEN TO ARMY AS AND WHEN IT IS CALLED BY THESE CORRUPT AND INEFFICIENT FELLOWS TO CORRECT THEIR BLUNDERS.I CAN ASSURE U ARMY WILL NOT NEED ANY PAY REVISION AND THE 'BABUSAHABS'WILL BE BANKRUPT.
    THERE IS ANOTHER THING WHICH CAN DE DONE.LET US DO AWAY WITH THE ARMY.WHY DO WE NEED IT AT ALL IN A DEMOCRACY WHICH IS ALSO A BIG ECONOMIC POWER.IS ANY ONE AWARE THAT ARMY IS ALSO USED TO GIVE PROTECTION TO VITAL ECONOMIC INSTALLATIONS OF THIS COUNTRY? DOES ANYONE WANT TO HAZARD A GUESS HOW MUCH EVERY INDUSTRIALIST SPEND ON ITS SECURITY DESPITE HAVING ALL TYPES OF ELEMENTS GIVING PROTECTION IN VARIOUS FORMS?WELL DEAR BABUS DO AWAY WITH ARMED FORCES,CREATE A HUGELY SUCCESSFUL ECONOMY FULL OF BIG INDUSTRIES ONLY TO BE TAKEN OVER NICELY BY YOUR GOOD OLD FRIENDLY NEIGHBOURS.I DON'T THINK 'BABUS' WILL MIND IT.HAVE THEY EVER CARED ABOUT ANYONE OTHER THAN THEMSELVES.LET THE COUNTRY BE DAMNED.

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  37. Anonymous10:20 PM

    Donot give armed forces anything.No increase in salary or any other benefit.BUT PLEASE GIVE THEM THE DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS THAT REST OF U ENJOY LIKE FORMING ASSOCIATION,GOING ON STRIKE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY LIBERTY TO LEAVE THE JOB AS AND WHEN DESIRED.
    I CAN PRETTY WELL ASSURE U THAT IF WE COME FOR WORK LIKE OUR CIVILIAN COUNTERPARTS DO(COME AND GO AT OWN SWEET WILL,TAKE HUGE TEA BREAKS ETC)YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBOUR WILL BE SITTING IN THE LAPS OF NETAS IN DELHI TOMMOROW.PLEASE STOP TREATING ARMED FORCES WITH OTHER SERVICES.IT IS ILLOGICAL AND UNFAIR.

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  38. Anonymous10:30 PM

    I AM WILLING TO BUY LIFE AT THE COST OF EMOLUMENTS BEING PAID TO THE ARMED FORCES.ANY TAKERS.PLEASE CONTACT ME IF U HAVE GUTS.I PROMISE TO GIVE U POOR SALARY,BAD WORKING CONDITIONS,SEPERATION FROM FAMILY & CHILDREN,STAGNATION AND BONDED LABOUR FOR AS LONG AS I WANT.AND PLEASE I WANT ONLY THE BEST,TOUGHEST,THE MOST HONEST,LOYAL,SINCERE,HARDWORKING,SMART AND INTELLEGENT.NO MEDIOCRITY ALLOWED AS IT IS THE QUESTION OF SAVING THE NATION.THERE ARE EARLY BIRD INCENTIVES AS WELL SO PLEASE HURRYUP.OH YES I FORGOT, "BABUS " WILL GET PREFERENCE AND DOUBLE THE SALARY THEY ARE GETTING NOW IF THEY WANT TO SWITCH JOB AND JOIN ARMED FORCES.

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  39. Anonymous10:31 PM

    I SIMPLY ASK TO ALL ,IS THERE ANY VALUE /COST OF ONES LIFE AND SOILDERS ARE SERVING NATION KNOWING THE CHALLANGES AND FACING BULLETS VOULANTEERLY FOR THESE TIMID BABOOS AND SAFE GUARDING THEM AND ENTIRE NATION BY THERE BARE CHEST ! CAN ANY ONE DARE TO FACE BULLTES KNOWINGLY THAT ALSO FOR OTHERS ?CAN THESE LAW MAKERS STAY IN FRONT LINE AREAS FOR A WEEK, THAN THEY HAVE RIGHT TO JUSTIFY THE PAYMENT POLOCIES FOR DEFENCS OTHER WISE THEY SHOULD KEEP QUIT AND LET THE NAVAL CHIEF DO HIS JOB. THIS STATE HAS REACHED THAT SOILDER HAVE TO ASK FOR SOME THING BECAUSE THEY HAD BEEN IGNORED OTHER WISE THEY HAD BEEN SACRIFICING EVERY THING FOR NATION AND ITS PEOPLE JAI HIND.

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  40. OUR CHIEFS ARE WRONG IN GOINNG TO THE PRESIDENT OR PRIME MINISTER.WHY SHOULD THEY BEG.THEY SHOULD ONLY ENSURE THAT ARMED FORCES ONLY DO AS MUCH AS THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO AND NOTHING ELSE.LET POLICE AND PARAMILITARY FORCES DO THE INTERNAL SECURITY AND THE 'BABUS' OF ALL TYPES RUN THE CIVIL ADMN IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES AND CALAMITIES AND LET ARMED FORCES ONLY GUARD THE NATION FOR WHICH IT IS ACTUALLY MEANT.DOES A IAS/IPS/IFS/NON IAS/NETA GO TO DO SOMETHING WHICH IS BEYOND HIS CHARTER OF DUTIES.IN FACT THEY DO MUCH LESS AS CAN BE SEEN BY THE CONDITION OF OUR COUNTRY.THEN WHY SHOULD WE?IF WE ARE THE LAST BASTION OF HOPE IN ALL SITUATIONS THEN WHERE IS THE DOUBT,PUT US AHEAD OF ALL OTHERS IN TERMS OF SALARY AND STATUS.AM I ASKING FOR TOO MUCH?OUR CHIEFS ARE WRONG IN GOINNG TO THE PRESIDENT OR PRIME MINISTER.WHY SHOULD THEY BEG.THEY SHOULD ONLY ENSURE THAT ARMED FORCES ONLY DO AS MUCH AS THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO AND NOTHING ELSE.LET POLICE AND PARAMILITARY FORCES DO THE INTERNAL SECURITY AND THE 'BABUS' OF ALL TYPES RUN THE CIVIL ADMN IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES AND CALAMITIES AND LET ARMED FORCES ONLY GUARD THE NATION FOR WHICH IT IS ACTUALLY MEANT.DOES A IAS/IPS/IFS/NON IAS/NETA GO TO DO SOMETHING WHICH IS BEYOND HIS CHARTER OF DUTIES.IN FACT THEY DO MUCH LESS AS CAN BE SEEN BY THE CONDITION OF OUR COUNTRY.THEN WHY SHOULD WE?IF WE ARE THE LAST BASTION OF HOPE IN ALL SITUATIONS THEN WHERE IS THE DOUBT,PUT US AHEAD OF ALL OTHERS IN TERMS OF SALARY AND STATUS.AM I ASKING FOR TOO MUCH?

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  41. Anonymous12:01 AM

    Those whose increment falls between February 2006 to May 2006 are the worst
    sufferers due to new increment policy as their next increment is delayed. But,
    those whose increment between Aug. to Dec. are much benefited. Lucky are those
    whose increment on 1.1.2006 as they get two increments in one and half years
    (Jan.06 in old scale and July 06 in new band). Why this injustice to those
    whose increment between Feb. to May. Better have increment options in January
    and July so that all are benefited as those who completed six months after
    increment in old scale should be given increment in Jan 06 itself (Jan to Jun)
    and rest (Jul to Dec) to be given in July. All please insist for it in all
    sites. Thanks - Ben

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  42. Anonymous12:02 AM

    Those whose increment falls between February 2006 to May 2006 are the worst
    sufferers due to new increment policy as their next increment is delayed. But,
    those whose increment between Aug. to Dec. are much benefited. Lucky are those
    whose increment on 1.1.2006 as they get two increments in one and half years
    (Jan.06 in old scale and July 06 in new band). Why this injustice to those
    whose increment between Feb. to May. Better have increment options in January
    and July so that all are benefited as those who completed six months after
    increment in old scale should be given increment in Jan 06 itself (Jan to Jun)
    and rest (Jul to Dec) to be given in July. All please insist for it in all
    sites. Thanks - Ben

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  43. honest view6:45 AM

    Any nation can ignore its armed forces only to its peril.Armed forces are the most respectable would remain most respectable.What makes them different is the way they are selected ,the way they are trained and they way live during service and beyond.

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  44. Whatever the types of corruption existing outside is also there inside Armed forces. You are not deserved to say that I am working somebody is enjoying. Everybody has their own difficulties. Being a service personnel, I could see a good number of people in Armed Forces who don’t have any loyalty to the service or to the country. Always blaming the Service and trying to do tricks to get away from their duties and enjoying the life at the cost of others. These people will never leave service, but will always say, “I will go”. They know how to survive in the Forces at the cost of others. Such people has a lot of time to talk much more about Armed Forces, because they don’t have any work. They want more money even if they don’t work. I don’t understand why you people joined Armed Forces. If you want money and want bribes, why didn’t you join IAS or private sector, instead of blaming them. They had dreams to join IAS, that is why they achieved it. If you couldn’t, it is not their mistake. Instead talking too much, do something for the country, otherwise get lost!

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  45. mr ideal the problem is because of you peoples. as col in units you make life hell for everybody so that you can get 9 pointer and then as GEN you keep surrendring funds so that you can become governer after retirement. a young indian boy join army with a misconception that he is joining as a group A officer and because of you people govt degrades them to the level of a group B. then on the top of it you say do not ask for anything. the real culprits are top brasses not the superceded chaps

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  46. Anonymous7:56 PM

    FACT 1 : Those who joined the army as officers did so because they were not getting any other job else where. 80% of army officers were 40%-50% scorers in their board exams if statistics on the net are to be believed.

    THEREFORE : It would be wrong for them to seek parity with IAS & even allied services.


    FACT 2 : Army is a non-productive organisation. In a country such as India which is a growing economically, best brains should not landup in an unproductive organisation such as Army.

    THEREFORE : It is only wise from the national point of view to make Army a grade B service in the long term.

    FACT 3(The bitter truth): Army officers should carryout an introspection. Answer these -

    Are you all not taking undue benifits - using vehicles for your personal use. We see your families moving around in market-Are they entitled? You have ceremonial duties for men at your houses- Are you entitled? You have sahayaks for your wives (literally) - are they entitled? You have been so kind to give us the liquor and Canteen items to us. Did the Govt of India authorise this? What skills have you developed (other than ofcourse organising parties, tent house jobs etc) after years of service in the organisation? AND Finally!!! Have you not routinely thrashed the innocent people in J&K and elsewhere in Northeast alienating the locals further (Getting KILLS!! for 9 pointers!!). ARE YOU NOT FOOLING THE NATION? Kargil war was boon for Army courtesy competition for TRP ratings and a nation which is too sentimental.

    Army needs to put more emphasis on improving its working rather than needlessly putting efforts in cosmectics. Army must realise that it is a service for the nation (public) and it is not above law (which they really think so).

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  47. Fauji Friends, We seem to have earned the 'Greedy' Tag for being expressive. Lessons - Become a doormat. Don't fight - be it for pay or against the enemy.

    Maxim - "Heads" the Babu wins; "Tails" the Fauji Loses.

    Sub Kuch 'Maya' Hai.

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  48. 1. It is pointed out the defense services officers of all the three services have been scandalously, shamefully and outrageously desecrated, disgraced, dishonored, besmirched and degraded by the Central Govt. and the bureaucrats who, always keep in mind their personal interest foremost, and dictate the Ministers to take decisions the way they want.
    2. The public opinion is that this seems to be the first Govt., which is completely insensitive to the defense persons. This fact can be seen from the fact that none of the earlier Govts. neglected them as it has been done this time, especially while notifying the 6th Pay Commission Report. Past records of earlier pay commissions may be checked, where you will find Defense Services officers were given better pay, and allowances then all the Civil Services and Para Military Forces officers. Rather, this is the first time, when Civil Services, Para Military Forces officers and many others holding equivalent and/or even lower posts of their counter parts in defense services are given higher pay and allowance/Grade Pay, hence, the status of almost all the Defense Services officers is lowered, degraded and tarnished. It has happened during the regime of the present Central Govt.,
    3. It is needless to emphasize that the financial benefit to the defense officers definitely has to be kept in mind. This is emphatically important considering their service conditions and retirement age, which are known to the whole country. However, their prestige, dignity and honor is rather that of more importance, which must not be destroyed, degraded and tarnished as has been done in the notified 6th Pay Commission Report. This statement is evident from the fact the seniority and status of all the Govt. Employees will be determined by the Grade Pay of all the officials in accordance with the 6th pay commission report.
    4. Nevertheless, the three Chiefs of Defense Services have first time picked up some courage to point out the degradation with vivid disparities in Gde. Pay of defense officers of the rank of Lt. Cols., Lt. Gens. and equivalent ranks of all three services.
    5. Nonetheless, it is noticed that no senior officers of either services or even the 6th Pay Commission Military Cell seem to have carefully gone through the full Pay Commission report and notifications. With due apology, I wish to mention that there are still number of more worst disparities in the cases of officers of the ranks of Majors, captains and Lieutenants, and equivalent ranks of all three services including trainees.
    6. You may kindly see that the pre-revised scales of pay of civil services officers falling in S-21, S-22, and S-23 were much less the pay scale of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services. In accordance with the notifications, the Govt. has given Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/- to Civilian Officers of the categories mentioned ibid, but all officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only.
    7. In addition, in the cases of Para Military Services, the Chief Nursing Officers, the Principals of schools, Education Officers, Assistant Directors and Managers, whose pre-revised scales were 10000-15200; all of them have now been given the Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/-. Whereas, the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, earlier drawing much higher pay scale, have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only.
    8. The degradation of Defense Services Officers does not end here itself. If you peruse the VI CPC report and notifications thereto, you will see, the ‘Vice Principal Grade I’ and Post Graduate Teacher Grade I of schools whose pre-revised scale was 8000-13200 are now given the Grade Pay of Rs. 6600/-, where as, the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, earlier drawing pay scale of more than 12000, are also now been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only. In addition, look into the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, whose pre-revised pay was much higher than the officials mentioned above are given Grade Pay of 6100/- only. Likewise, the pre-revised pay scale of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services was starting from Rs 8250/ which is more than these officials, where as the Grade Pay of all these officials is Rs. 6600/- but the Grade Pay of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services is given just Rs. 5400/-‘
    9. From the above, you can very well see, how shabbily the defense services officers of all the three services alone have been scandalously, shamefully and outrageously desecrated, disgraced, dishonored, besmirched and degraded by the Central Govt. and the bureaucrats.
    10. Further, it may be seen that any officers or officials of Central or State Govt. join any service in any post, they start getting their full pay and allowances from the day they join the service. Rather, they are paid their full pay and allowances during their training period, irrespective of duration of their training. In the cases PBOR or Officers of Defense services, they are paid just stipend only during the period of their initial training. How big injustice is being done by the Central Govt. can be well imagined?
    11. In view of the foregoing, I make an earnest appeal to the public to send their sincere to the Prime Minister, Defense Minister, Finance Minister and the Govt. to do justice to the Defense Officers. I also make an earnest appeal to all these authorities of the Central Govt. to look into the matter, restore status and dignity and give the defense services officers of all the three services their due as suggested below:-
    (a). In the cases of Lt. Generals and Lt. Colonels, as taken up by three Services Chiefs of Defense Services.
    (b). In the case of the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 7600/-.
    (c). In the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/-.
    (d). In the case of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6100/-.
    (e). Give full pay, allowances and Grade Pay to all the PBOR or Officers of Defense services, during the period of their initial training as is being done in the case of other Central and State Govt. Officials.
    12. If above suggested recommendations are accepted, is is assured that it will have great impact to raise the morale of Defense Services Personnel and attract desired, rather better talents to join Military Services, thus huge vacancies of officers existing since long will be made up. This will prove to be in the best interest of the nation and national security.
    Thanks.
    Yours truly,
    Kishan.

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  49. moment indian army starts behaving like pak army every one in this country will understand @willstop talking nonsence with them

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  50. Anonymous7:18 PM

    Mr DKS .. rightly said
    Anonymous who has been vociferous about anti army sentiments be put in Siachen for one night and then made to talk... if alive

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  51. REMOVAL OF DISPARITIES OF DEFENSE PERSONNEL.
    1. It may be noted that the defense services persons, while putting across their grievances while quoting pay parities, they never mean any thing against the IAS officers, Para Military Services officers or any one else. Rather, they are happy to note that all these officers have been given their legitimate due for which they are fully satisfied.
    2. It is needless to emphasize that the financial benefits to the defense persons definitely have to be kept in mind. This is emphatically important considering their service conditions and low retirement age. However, may they be officers or PBOR, their prestige, dignity and honor is rather that of more importance, which must not be compromised, destroyed, degraded and tarnished as has been done in the notified 6th Pay Commission Report. This statement is evident from the fact that the seniority and status of all the Govt. employees will be determined by the Grade Pay of all the officials in accordance with the 6th pay commission report.
    3. Nevertheless, the three Chiefs of Defense Services have pointed out the Pay Parities with vivid disparities in the Gde. Pay of some of the defense officers of the rank of Lt. Cols., Lt. Gens. and equivalent ranks of all three services, especially in comparison to IAS Officers and Para Military Officers. It has been categorically pointed out by the three Chiefs of Defense Services, the proposed pay parities will have adverse effects during the joint operations.
    4. With due apology, this is to point out that in addition to the above disparities, there are still number of more grave disparities in the cases of officers of the ranks of Majors, captains and Lieutenants, and equivalent ranks of all three services as well as trainees of these services.
    5. You may kindly see that the pre-revised scales of pay of civil services officers falling in S-21, S-22, and S-23 and equivalent posts of officers of Para Military Forces were much less then the pay scale of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services. Irrespective of this fact; in accordance with the 6th pa commission report notifications, the Civilian Officers of the categories mentioned ibid are given the Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/-, where as all officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only. Further, the Chief Nursing Officers of Para Military Services, the Principals of schools, Education Officers, Assistant Directors and Managers, whose pre-revised scales were 10000-15200; all of them have now been given the Grade Pay of Rs. 7600/-, whereas, the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, earlier drawing much higher pay scale than them, have been given the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- only.
    6. The degradation of Defense Services Officers does not end here itself. If you peruse the VI CPC report and notifications thereto. You will see that the ‘Vice Principal Grade I’ and Post Graduate Teacher Grade I of schools whose pre-revised scale was 8000-13200 are now given the Grade Pay of Rs. 6600/-, but in the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, whose pre-revised pay was much higher than the officials mentioned above are given Grade Pay of 6100/- only. Likewise, the pre-revised pay scale of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services was starting from Rs 8250/ which is more than the officials mentioned ibid, their Grade Pay is given just Rs. 5400/- only.
    7. It is emphatically and forcefully verbalized that all the Pay Bands and Grade pay given to the Defense Officers should be made applicable to them after rendering the same period of service as that is applicable to the IAS Officers and Para Military Officers. There must not be any discrimination in this regard.
    8. Further, it may be seen that when any officers or officials of Central or State Govt. join any service in any post, they start getting their full pay and allowances from the day they join the service. Their entire service is counted for increments, promotions and retirement from the first very day. They are paid their full pay and allowances and all other benefits of service during their training period, irrespective of duration of their training. Contrary to this, the Officers and PBOR of Defense services are paid just stipend only during the period of their initial training. Also, this period is not counted for giving increments, promotions and retirement. Such a big discrimination and injustice must not be done to the defense services personnel alone.
    9. The 6th Pay Commission and the Govt. has very kindly recommended and accepted the prolonged and long standing/awaited demand of Military Service Pay (‘MSP’) of defense personnel. But, it is highly unjustified as to why the MSP should not be applicable w. e. f. the day, the 6th pay commission is effective. Were the soldiers not the part of defense forces and/or they have not been performing their duties from 1 Jan 2006 onward? If they are legitimate part of defense forces and have been performing their duties since 1 Jan 2006 and the 6th Pay commission is since effective from 1 Jan 2006, the MSP must be given to them w.e.f that very date and the arrears whatever may be due, should be paid accordingly.
    10. Further, Military Service Pay is since the Pay, it is highly illogical not to consider it to calculate dearness allowance and increments on this pay. It may be noted that the Central Govt. has agreed to pay dearness allowance on the Transport Allowance. It is surprising to note that when the tpt. allowance is an allowance and not the pay, the dearness allowance is permitted on it, but the MSP is the Pay, yet, it is not considered for the purpose. Hence, the Govt. must reconsider its decision to pay dearness allowance on MSP as well as, it must be included to calculate increments w.e.f. 01 Jan 2006 please.
    11. One Rank One-Pension issue has been long outstanding. This matter is most judicious and deserving since the service personnel including officers retire at a very early age and none of them finds any avenues for discharging their entire responsibilities and living after their retirement. They are totally dependent on their pension only.
    12. At the time of implementation of pay commission report, there occurs a big disparity in the pension of present and previously retired ex-service persons retired from the same rank. The pension of presently retired person is fixed based on 50% of last 10 months average pay after rendering total period of service by him. In the case of persons retired before the implementation of pay commission report, their pension is re-fixed based on minimum of the new pay scale of the rank/post from which they retired, irrespective of any amount of period of service they had rendered before their retirement. The entire period of service they rendered before their retirement is completely ignored. Consequently, there becomes a wide gap of eligibility of pension between the present/future and previously retired persons, though in both cases, they retired or will retire from the same rank. This is absolutely in contravention to the Apex Court’s recent decision. Considering this fact as well as Apex court judgement, the authorities must bear in mind the rank and period of rendered service while re-fixing the pension of all persons who retired before implementation of pay commission report. In accordance with this analogy, the authorities must consider the pensionable pay of a serving person after the period of service that was rendered by a retired person for re-fixing his pension on implementation of any pay commission report. If pension is ever re-fixed against this principle, it will be contrary to the Apex Court judgement.
    13. Previously, the defense service officers, who could not get selection grade rank of Lt. Col and equivalents rank; they used to get this rank after rendering 21 years of service. Such officers were denied rank pay of Lt. Col and their pension was fixed without including the rank pay of this rank. It is of utmost importance to note that presently, all officers of defense services attain the rank of time scale Lt. Col after rendering 13 years of service, and they are entitled full pension, considering their basic pay and rank pay. Further, after implementation of sixth pay commission report, they will get their full pension after including running pay of applicable “band pay, grade pay and MSP’. The previously retired officers since attain the rank in question after 21 years and present ones, get this rank after 13 years, there must not be any discrimination in the past and present officers of the rank of Lt. Col. while fixing/re-fixing the pension in either case.
    14. The present minimum service required for officers to be eligible for pension is 20 years. The short service commissioned officers, who are asked to leave service after 10/14 years, are not eligible for pension. The pension for such officers should be considered, though it may not be full pension as is applicable for the officers who retire after rendering 20 years or more service. It can be commensurately less in comparison to minimum 20 years requirement. However, such short commissioned officers, who voluntarily seek retirement after stipulated period or before 20 years may not be considered for this purpose.
    15. In view of the foregoing, a most sincere and earnest appeal is made to the Prime Minister, External Affairs minister, who is the Chairman of special review committee for the purpose, Defense Minister, Finance Minister and all other authorities to do justice to the Defense Officers and PBOR of all three services to look into the matter judiciously, restore their status and dignity and give them their due as suggested below:-
    (a). In the cases of Lt. Generals, Lt. Colonels and PBOR, as taken up by the Chiefs of three Defense Services.
    (b). In the case of the officers of the rank of Majors and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 7600/- be given.
    (c). In the case of the officers of the rank of Captains and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6600/- be given.
    (d). In the case of the officers of the rank of Lieutenants and equivalent ranks of all three services, the Grade pay of Rs. 6100/- be given.
    (e). Give full pay, allowances and Grade Pay to all the Officers and PBOR of Defense services during the period of their initial training as is being done in the case of other Central and State Govt. Officials.
    (f). The Pay Bands and Grade pay given to the Defense Officers should be made applicable after rendering the same period of service as that is applicable to the IAS Officers and Para Military Officers. There must not be any discrimination in this regard.
    (g). In accordance with Hon’ able Apex Court’s recent decision; the Govt. must bear in mind to ensure to fix the pension of officers previously retired or retiring hereafter in the same rank of Lt Col. may it be time scale or previous selection grade or any other same rank without any discrimination.
    (h). The short service commissioned officers, who are asked to leave service after rendering 10/14 service years, be made eligible for pension, which may be commensurately less in comparison to 20 years.
    (i). Considering the fact explained at Para 12 above as well as recent Apex Court judgement, the authorities must bear in mind the rank and period of rendered service while re-fixing the pension of all persons who retired before implementation of pay commission report. In accordance with this analogy, the authorities must consider total pensionable pay of a serving person after the period of service that was rendered by a retired person for re-fixing every retired person’s pension on implementation of any pay commission report.
    17. If suggestions above are accepted, it is assured that it will have great impact to raise the morale of Defense Services Personnel and attract desired, rather better talents to join Military Services, thus huge vacancies of officers, existing since long, will be made up. This will prove to be in the best interest of the nation and national security.
    Thanks.
    Yours truly,
    Jassu

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  52. Anonymous10:02 PM

    The status of armed forces has been degraded progressively by various Pay commissions. the terms and conditions of employment of Civilian and military are completely different.
    The Conduct of Armed Forces are governed by the respective Acts of Parliament and retribution for non compliance in Armed Forces are very severe. The same is not true of the civilian bureaucracy or para military forces.
    The answer will lie in having a separate pay commission for armed forces.

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  53. Aditya11:26 PM

    Why is there so much whining from paramilitary and civilian service afrontisados? The armed forces are primus inter se, and have been, since independence. While youre whinging about all this, why dont you examine why the IAS is promoted to Jt Secy (SAG) in 16 years, while you have to wait 30 years for it? Stop crying. The armed forces have been the easiest to gain parity over so far. Theyre not taking it any more. Theres no reason why a service officer should be junior in parity to a, for example, MES engineer, or an IDAS accountant, or an IDES estate manager, who belongs to a service created simply to aid the military to do its job. Are we not losing the forest for the trees? Isnt the main service more important than its support arms?

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  54. Anonymous11:38 PM

    Perspective of a civilian

    We need a permanent solution to this tussle over emoluments so that the armed forces need only confront the enemies of the nation, says T.R.Ramaswami

    In the continuing debate on pay scales for the armed forces, there has to be a serious and transparent effort to ensure that the country is not faced with an unnecessary civil-military confrontation. That effort will have to come from the netas, who are the real and true bosses of the armed forces and not the civil bureaucracy. A solution may lie in what follows. This country requires the best armed forces, the best police and the best civil service. In fact that is what the British ensured.. By best one means that a person chooses which service he wants as per his desires/capabilitie s and not based on the vast differential in prospects in the various services. How much differential is there? Take Maharashtra, one of the most parsimonious with police ranks thus still retaining some merit - the 1981 IPS batch have become 3-star generals, the 1987 are 2-star and the 1994 1-star.. In the army the corresponding years are 1972, 1975, 1979. – ie a differential of 10-15 years. While the differential is more with the IAS, the variance with the IPS is all the more glaring because both are uniformed services and the grades are "visible" on the shoulders.

    First some general aspects. Only the armed forces are a real profession – ie where you rise to the top only by joining at the bottom. We have had professors of economics become Finance Secretaries or even Governors of RBI. We have any number of MBBSs, engineers, MBAs, in the police force though what their qualifications lend to their jobs is a moot point. You can join at any level in the civil service, except Cabinet Secretary. A civil servant can move from Animal Husbandry to Civil Aviation to Fertilisers to Steel to yes, unfortunately, even to Defence.. But the army never asks for Brigade Commanders or a Commandant of the Army War College or even Director General Military Intelligence, even from RAW or IB. Army officers can and have moved into organizations like IB and RAW but it is never the other way round. MBBS and Law graduates are only in the Medical or JAG Corps and do nothing beyond their narrow areas. Every Army Chief - in any army - has risen from being a commander of a platoon to company to battalion to brigade to division to corps to army. In fact the professionalism is so intense that no non-armoured corps officer ever commands an armoured formation – first and possibly only exception in world military history – General K. Sunderji. Perhaps it is this outstanding professionalism that irks the civil services.

    Next, one must note the rigidity and steep pyramid of the army's rank structure. In the civil services any post is fungible with any grade based on political expediency and the desires of the service. For example I know of one case where one department downgraded one post in another state and up-graded one in Mumbai just to enable someone continue in Mumbai after promotion! You can't fool around like this in the armed forces. A very good Brigadier cannot be made a Major-General and continue as brigade commander. There has to be a clear vacancy for a Major General and even then there may be others better than him. Further the top five ranks in the army comprise only 10% of the officer strength. Contrast this with the civil services where entire batches become Joint Secretaries.

    Even the meaning of the word "merit" is vastly different in the army and the civil services. Some years back an officer of the Maharashtra cadre claimed that he should be the Chief Secretary as he was first in the merit list. Which merit list? At the time of entry more than 35 years before! The fact is that this is how merit is decided in the IAS and IPS. Every time a batch gets promoted the inter-se merit is still retained as at the time of entry. In other words if you are first in a batch at the time of entry, then as long as you get promoted, you continue to remain first! This is like someone in the army claiming that he should become chief because he got the Sword of Honour at the IMA. Even a Param Vir Chakra does not count for promotion, assuming that you are still alive. In the armed forces, merit is a continuous process - each time a batch is promoted the merit list is redrawn according to your performance in all the previous assignments with additional weightage given not only to the last one but also to your suitability for the next one. Thus if you are a Brigade Commander and found fit to become a Major General, you may not get a division because others have been found better to head a division. That effectively puts an end to your promotion to Lt. General.

    The compensation package must therefore address all the above issues. In each service, anyone must get the same total compensation by the time he reaches the 'mode rank' of his service. "Mode" is a statistical term – the value where the maximum number of variables fall. In the IAS normally everyone reaches Director and in the IPS it is DIG. In the army, given the aforementioned rank and grade rigidities and pyramidical structure, the mode rank cannot exceed Colonel. Thus a Colonel's gross career earnings (not salary scales alone) must be at par with that of a Director. But remember that a Colonel retires at 54, but every babu from peon to Secretary at 60 regardless of performance. Further, it takes 16-18 years to become a Colonel whereas in that time an IAS officer reaches the next higher grade of Joint Secretary, which is considered equal to a Major General. These aspects and others - like postings in non-family stations - must be addressed while fixing the overall pay scales of Colonel and below.. Thereafter a Brigadier will be made equal to a Joint Secretary, a Major-General to an Additional Secretary and a Lt. General to a Secretary. The Army Commanders deserve a new rank - Colonel General - and should be above a Secretary but below Cabinet Secretary. The equalization takes place at the level of Cabinet Secretary and Army Chief. If this is financially a problem I have another solution. Without increasing the armed forces' scales, reduce the scales of the IAS and IPS till they too have 20% shortage. Done? Even India 's corruption index will go down.

    If the above is accepted in principle, there is a good case to review the number of posts above Colonel. Senior ranks in the armed forces have become devalued with more and more posts being created. But the same pruning exercise is necessary in the IAS and more so in the IPS, where Directors General in some states are re-writing police manuals – one is doing Volume I and another Volume II! Further the civil services have such facilities as "compulsory wait" – basically a picnic at taxpayers cost. And if you are not promoted or posted where you don't want to go they seem able to take off on leave with much ease. In the army you will be court-martialled. Also find out how many are on study leave. The country cannot afford this.

    Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra's grandfather. As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That's enough proof as to who is really more capable. Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them to do so.

    Remember that the armed forces can only fight for above the table pay. They can never compete with the civil services and definitely not with the police for the under the table variety.

    Finally, there is one supreme national necessity. The political class – not the bureaucracy - which represents the real civil supremacy better become more savvy on matters relating to the armed forces. Till then they are at the mercy of the civil service, who frequently play their own little war games. At ministerial level there are some very specialized departments – Finance, Railways, Security (Home), Foreign and Defence, where split second decisions are necessary. It is always possible to find netas savvy in finance, foreign relations and railways. Security has been addressed in getting a former IPS officer as NSA at the level of a MoS. Is it time that a professional is also brought into the Defence Ministry as MoS? The sooner the better. In fact this will be better than a CoDS because the armed forces will have someone not constrained by the Army Act or Article 33 of the Constitution. Of course the loudest howls will come from the babus. The netas must realize that a divide and rule policy cannot work where the country's security is concerned. Recall 1962?

    Our army, already engaged in activities not core to their functions, including rescuing babies from borewells (!), should not have to engage in civil wars over their pay scales.

    The writer is a former banker who was with the SBI Group and DSP Merrill Lynch Ltd.

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    THE END

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  55. I feel, the articles like the one must be sent to the President of India, Prime Minister, Defense Minister, External Affairs Minister, finance Minister, all other Ministers, Speaker of Lok Sabha, Cabinet Secretary, Chief Justice of India, all natinal dailies, all TV channels, all luminiaries of the nation etc to educate the concerned authorities on the subject. well done

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  56. it is disgusting to point out that let any luminiary on earth may write to PM, whosoever one may be, none cares, rather all of them care hood for the national defence forces. if the nation remembers, the PM and other ministers of the committee so seems to be appointed by the PM told that they will sort out the issue before Diwali. the defence persons now feel, the Present or even future Govt may not do any thing even by the next Diwali. I do not think the Govt can understand the inner feelings of its soldiers, where as every individual of the country understand. infact, the beaurocrats and the Govt thinks the defence pers are the slaves and not required to be cared for them. rather, it is too sad.

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