Tuesday, April 01, 2008

Services to make new Proposal

With resentment in the ranks over the pay panel recommendations, the armed forces have drawn up a joint proposal demanding more salaries for soldiers, an increase in allowances and pointing out "major anomalies" in the salary structure.

The joint memorandum, which will shortly be presented to Defence Minister A K Antony, has been drawn up by the Chiefs of Staff Committee (COSC) and emphasises the need for better salaries for soldiers and middle-rung officers.

One of the key contentions is that in the new recommendations, almost all armed forces personnel have been shifted to a lower salary grade compared to civilian officers of comparable service and experience.

To address this, the forces have proposed major changes in the Military Service Pay (MSP) - a new concept introduced in the Sixth Pay Commission to give armed forces an edge over others.

While the panel has fixed Rs 1,000 as MSP for all soldiers and Rs 6,000 for officers, the services have demanded that the special pay should be equated to the basic salary and be decreased progressively with seniority.

For entry-level soldiers, the armed forces have asked an MSP of 60 per cent of the basic pay which would progressively decrease to 40 per cent of basic till the seniormost level. This, officials say, will give entry level personnel incentives as well as cater to the aspirations of mid-level officers.

Another major issue brought out in the proposal is increase in special allowances for soldiers posted in harsh terrain and operationally active areas. In all cases, including allowances for counter-insurgency areas, Siachen postings and high altitude duty, the pay panel has recommended doubling of existing scales.

This has been deemed unfair by the services and they have asked for a rational rather than ‘arithmetic' view on hikes considering tough service conditions.

The services have also demanded that their pay bands should be delinked from the civil services due to different promotion structures and shorter service period. Contending that majority of the personnel never reach the higher pay band in their career, the forces have asked for new pay bands.

The forces want to do away with the concept of a single pay band for personnel below officer's rank and two pay bands for officers and have demanded three pay bands each for officers and soldiers.

The joint proposal also flatly rejects a recommendation by the pay panel for the lateral movement of short service commission officers and Per sonnel Below Officer Rank (PBOR) to paramilitary organisations like CRPF and BSF.

Considering that the recommendations have not solved the officer retention problem of the forces - as many as 14 Colonel-level officers handed in premature retirement applications to Defence Hqs within five days of the report - the services have expressed their keenness on speedy amendments to arrest "demoralisation down the ranks".

(Published in Indian Express on 01/04/2008)


  1. Anonymous12:08 PM

    The Govt has successfully followed "Divide and rule" in the 6th Pay Commission.

    Being a true Indian Defence services are realising this and raising voices.

    Other non defence higherup are however usually behave like "Slaves of Govt."

  2. Anonymous12:20 PM

    Services Chiefs have shown moral character. BRAVO!

    Sadly, their civilian counterparts do not appear to have any.

  3. I would like to comment on the manpower situation and on the pay scales given to armed forces. It is wrong to say that armed forces are not finding officers. We have seen riot like situation in army recruitment centres where graduates and post-graduates struggle to enter into the Services. As Mr. Mulayam singhji Yadav proposed when he was defence minister, officers should be recruited from the existing jawans and junior and noncommissioned officers. They should be given chance to become officers, instead of depending XII std. pass students to train them in NDA. The jawans who have seen the reality of life in civil and service sectors will be more sensitive to the needs of the nation rather than the raw youngmen catapulted to become officers after one or two years 'vigorous' training in NDA etc. The classical colonial mindset should change.

    Secondly, if you take into account the free ration, accommodation, paid leave of nearly three months in a year, free travel facilities, subsidized schooling/college facilities, wet canteen and dry canteen faciltiy, free/subsidizded club membership, in service training, free/subsidized transport for self and children to go to school, welfare associations for wives, excellent medical facilities - the list is unending - then the real salary theu are getting - i.e. cost to government - is nearly ten times the pay scale suggested by the pay commission. Before demand for more, the Services bestowed with the responsibility of guarding the nation, should introspect whether their demand is justified in a poor country like ours where already the pay and perks of the Armed Forces are best in the nation.

    While the jawans and officers who guard our borders, hills, sea and air should be paid handsomely when they are posted in the border, they should be treated equal to other civilian officers and staff when they are in metros and peace stations, which is exactly they want - treat as equal to IAS etc. etc.

    Hope the government has the backbone to withstand the prssure from various groups and implement pay commission recommendation for the good of the nation.

  4. SPC arrear calculator is available at the following links.it is known that arrears for HRA and TA will not be paid.


  5. Anonymous10:49 PM


  6. Dear Editor,
    1. This in reference to the article carried in your newspaper, New Delhi Edition, 30 Mar 2008 : Cost to Govt 4 Times the salary on paper. (Article attached).
    2. I think the article is totally misleading and will spread misinformation amongst the masses! How has Ashish Sinha and XLRI Jamshedpur arrived at the conclusion that Cost to Government (CTG) of Armed Forces officers is 4.5 times of the salary is baffling. The conclusion is scandalous, blasphemous and in poor taste! Ironically, these are the same arguments which have been presented in the VI Pay Commission report while fixing the salaries of defence Forces officers. Let me decimate these so called 'intangibles' given by Ashish Sinha and possibly XLRI Jamshedpur in support of this conclusion one by one.
    3. Housing : Where are these 'sprawling bungalows' in which the defence officers are supposedly living. Being an Army Wife of an officer who has had an unblemished 31 years career in the Army so far and who has not done so badly, I have never ever lived in any of these sprawling bungalows. We have been always been allotted dilapidated flats, crumbling at the seams and the houses and the colonies represent Bombay Chawls. Mostly even this sub standard accommodation is not available and one has to make do with temporary arrangements ranging from a single room in a crumbling British era building, to a lower class of accommodation till one finally gets the authorised accommodation (Mind you it is 1500 square feet and not 3500 square feet as stated by the VI pay commission in its report). If one gets authorised scale of accommodation at all before one gets posted out. All this in the same station involving two to three shiftings in a two years tenure. The houses are poorly constructed to begin with and are maintained by an organisation called MES (Has XLRI interacted with MES??). The icing on the cake is provided by MES by simultaneously charging rent for all the accommodations (once occupied by you in this shifting process). It is often very late that one realises that one is supposedly occupying so many accommodations simultaneously on paper and being charged for them!!! The sorting out process which involves another such organisation as the MES, gives one a real taste of the bureaucratic process!!! So much for the sprawling bungalows!!!!
    4. CSD : What is available in the CSD and how much of these items does one buy monthly? The total items purchased per month do not cost more than Rs 600/- to 700/- and the saving accrued is not more than Rs 200/- per month i.e. if one discounts the effort involved to get to the CSD (i.e. when it is open) provided the required item is available and finally the quality is good and competitive brands and contemporary brands are available. With the retail revolution now taking place in the country, most of the times better stuff is available in the market at lesser or same rates and then these can be bought at 11.00 p.m at night!! In my entire life as an army wife (25 years), I do not think we have saved more than Rs 70,000/- by buying things from CSD. This includes purchase of a car!!! So much for CSD contributing to 4.5 times CTG!!!
    5. House Building Advance : Please tell XLRI Jamshedpur and Ashish Sinha to publish factual details of total housing loans taken by Army Officers from private banks (HDFC, ICICI) vis-à-vis the government loan. The details will be eye opening!! Haat kangan ko arsi kya, parhe likhe ko pharsi kya!!! Had these Govt loans been so easily available and so lucrative, 90% loans would not be taken by officers from private banks!!!
    6. 90 Days Leave : You need leave when you serve away from families. Let Ashish Sinha do a stint in a field area and probably then he'll start campaigning for even more leave for soldiers. Secondly, which soldier gets full quota of leave? Lastly, do not private companies give all expenses paid holidays to their employees? Any such parallel in a govt job?
    7. Travel Passes : Need for travel arises only because one serves away from home. Even then, the annual saving on account of subsidised travel by any average army family (including travel not necessitated by service conditions and for personal purposes alone) cannot exceed Rs 4-5 K annually. Mind you, this figure too is on the higher side!!
    8. I guess it has become rather fashionable to talk about the abnormal privileges being enjoyed by defence services. Some other so called perks have not been touched upon in your article hence I need not elaborate on those and make efforts to decimate them too. But I assure you that they too are all a fallacy and are easily torn to shreds.
    9. Finally, I have one suggestion to make to the powers that be and to those who are responsible for perpetrating this fallacy that an army officer's CTG is 4.5 times his salary – please withdraw all such intangibles {CSD, govt houses (ramshackles), free rations, form D and warrants, 50% air travel concession (who travels and when??) orderlies etc etc!!} and pay us 4.5 times of what has been proposed by the VI pay commission!!! Acceptable? I am sure I am voicing the opinion of bulk of the middle rung officers of the Army!
    10. Please do publish our sheer disappointment with your esteemed newspaper for carrying such blasphemous articles!!
    11. JAI HIND!!
    Nina Sachar
    Jalvayu Vihar
    Sector 10, Vidyadhar Nagar
    Tele : 9352993104, 0141-2232453

  7. .."We have seen riot like situation in army recruitment centres where graduates and post-graduates struggle to enter into the Services"...
    SS Kumar is referring to recruitment of Personnel Below Officers Rank. As far as officers are concerned, history was recently created when only 86 candidates turned up at IMA, Dehradun against a normal of perhaps 400-500. The kind of material army expects as an officer gets a far better deal in civy street. Why should he join army??

  8. .."We have seen riot like situation in army recruitment centres where graduates and post-graduates struggle to enter into the Services"...
    SS Kumar is referring to recruitment of Personnel Below Officers Rank. As far as officers are concerned, history was recently created when only 86 candidates turned up at IMA, Dehradun against a normal of perhaps 400-500. The kind of material army expects as an officer gets a far better deal in civy street. Why should he join army??

  9. Anonymous11:55 AM


  10. This is with reference to the comments of Ms.ethis.

    The cat is out of the bag. The comments show that the demand for increase in pay & perks are sought for officers by officers/their wives and not for jawans. The comments do not even make an effort to camouflage this fact!

    I agree that Ashish Sinha and XLRI is wrong in arriving at the conclusion that cost to government (CTG) of Armed Forces officers is 4.5 times. They are wrong. It is actually CTG is 10 times. Now let me “demolish” the demolition attempt made in the above comments regarding CTG and substantiate my claim:

    Housing : Each and everyone of the senior officers Colonel eqvlt and above get assured government accommodation or accommodation hired by the government, wherever they are posted. In case there is delay, they are given accommodation in the mess. In Delhi bunglows are reserved in Leytons Delhi for Major Generals/eqvt and above. These bunglows have sprawling lawns, backside vegetable garden, six to eight servant quarters(!), car garage, sit out and what not and the market rent of these bunglows run into many lakhs per month. While all the senior officers may not be lucky to get these much envied addresses, they are assured of decent accommodation wheverever they go. Provision of government accommodation to the service officers has to be provided by the government compulsorily and in case, they do not have MES accommodation, houses and flats are hired by the government and are given to them. What else they want?
    Regarding leaking, old and dilapidated flats, I request them to visit any CPWD colony for civilians and see for themselves how much they are better of compared to these civilians. Even this accommodation is not available for all civilian officials. The waiting list for Type III and Type IV and above accommodation is of the 1970s vintage! Please remember the story about the man who was in the desert without any shoes, lamenting and feeling sorry for himself. When he sees another man near him who is seated on the ground because he has no legs, his self-pity quickly changes to gratitude. Therefore, it is upto them to feel miserable because they do not have fancy shoes, or grateful because they have legs!

    CSD : Have you ever visited a CSD store? Probably not, because it is privileged. Only service persons are allowed. (Again under strict segregation. Jawans should not visit the shopping portion to be visited by officers and their family members!) But you can go and see from outside. Unbelievably crowded. a shaving cream which you buy for 45 rupees outside is available for 25 rupees, an after shave costing 140 outside is available for 65. Leave these peanuts. The prize goes to durables. You will be amazed to see the thousands of rupees difference in the price of cars, televisions, wash machines, ovens et al. Same is the case with hard liquor. Less than 70% of market price. As a matter of fact all these examples are not needed. You need not send an invitation to a colony of ants to taste the spilled syrup. Rampant corruption and often reported reselling of CSD items/liquor goes to prove that there is enough meat in these items. Why, the canteen itself proclaims on the items, “CSD item. Not for sale outside” which goes to show that they command premium outside! The madam herself admits that she has saved Rs.70000/- through purchases in CSD and she fees it is negligible! I agree, she is right, compared to others who makes a kill!

    90 days leave : Almost three months leave in a year was justified in 18th century. What is the need now, when you can travel one corner to the other of the country in few hours (with 50% concession in airfare in all the airlines for all the members of the family of the service officers). Otherwise they get free warrant. OK, let us say such leave is justified for those who are in hard places. What is the justification for extending this luxury for those who serve in metros and cities?

    Ms. Sachar is talking of the all paid holidays enjoyed by private sector employees. I think madam is not aware of the service condition of the people working in private sectors. The multinationals and transnationals virtually suck the blood of their employees. They are not even allowed to talk on their own cell phone, leave alone office phone. No personal emails. No late coming. No reading of magazines and papers. No gossiping. No written complaints, grievances petitions. No fixed working hours, should be on call all the time. Compare this with the luxury enjoyed by services and other government officials. You can do all the above and more. No private company gives leave for more than 21 days in a year. Where is 21 and where is 90? Instead of repeating hearsay stories, please speak to private sector employees to ascertain as to how many them have been allowed all paid holidays! You may not find even a handful of them. Madam, the motive in private sector is profit. As Sixth pay commission chief pointed out, Friday you will be going to office and Monday morning you will be jobless. Are you in that situation?

    Recruitment : It is mentioned by Mr. ethis that only 86 turned up in IMA Dehra Dun against normal 300-400. The write attributes this low turn out because the civilian pay and perk are more attractive than in the services. Nothing can be farther from the truth. The real reason is somewhat different. IMA calls for application from technical graduates. They should not wear glasses, they should not have colour vision problem, they should not have cavities/sharp teeth (!), they should climb, crawl, jump and run etc. etc. Please tell me Sir, which top-rated IITians and REC graduates will fit it your bill. If they are successful civil, electrical, electronic and computer engineers in the civilian world, why don’t your medical profile change with the times, atleast in case of these IMA officers. On the other hand, if at all Services is really worried about not getting enough physically fit youngmen, what prevents them from going to various college campus and recruit them? Alternatively, there may be hundreds of science graduates working as jawans and junior officers. Induct them as officers after proper testing and train them in IMA. “Starving for talent due to inadequate pay” is a ruse to get more and more pay & perks. There is not an iota of truth in this.

    Finally, which civilian officers wives’ associations enjoy official patronage, wherewithal and resources to run? How many of these civilian wives use their husbands office resources for personal and unofficial welfare works? How many civilians get free ration which is enough to fee the whole family. I know officers who spend next to nothing for running their family, because every item they get in free ration. How many civilian have got club/mess facilities?

    Hence, I sincerely request you to please be contented. Thank God for being privileged. Appreciate the fact that you are given opportunity to see and live in different parts of the country at State expense. Enjoy the benefits and be happy with the fact that you are able to bring up nice disciplined and well-mannered children because of the fact that you are protected from many evils of civil life. Thank you.

  11. what crap by mr ss kumar
    why doesnt he himself join the army
    bugger would come to know what is life
    it is becoz of highly corrupt and overstaffed people thet the country is in this condition

  12. Anonymous7:57 PM

    Mr ss kumar is a total looser i suppose
    the housing shortage is tremendous and one has to stay outside the designated base areas which is ceratinly not safe when one is away for long periods without any means of communication
    he should know that the working conditions are bad in navy and air force also
    ships nowadays sails for 200 days plus in a year he should try one being away for 7 months a year
    in base also lot of extra works are there and hence one does not go home before 6 when working hours are till 4. the civilian workers push off at 4.30 mind u and if they stay are paid rs 80 per hour and mind u they never work in normal hours
    very patriotic i think
    he wants salary according to posting so please pay the ot if work is more than 8 hours a day
    and i can go on and on
    but i would like to know where does ss kumar sahab work let us also have some idea of how useful is he to the nation
    so please enlighten us about the hard work u are putting in for the nation

  13. Anonymous8:28 PM

    I find the contents very interesting.
    We seem to be fighting each other rather than putting our own respective cases forward.
    The British have left a legacy of divide and rule which has been perfected by our Politicians.
    I retired 7 years back at a senior rank. My contemporaries on the civil side are retiring now, in these extra years they reached a much higher level of pay scale. They enjoyed priviliges and higher pay scales for 7 more years.As a result they enjoy a much higher pension for life. After retirement no one is prepared to give the bulk of the officers from fighting arms like me a job as per my status. The bulk of the Army officers belong to this category
    I see my counterparts being given good assignments by the government after their retirement and will continue in some capacity or the other for quite some time.
    My civilian friends who have technical qualifications will never retire.
    I will somehow manage. But I have made sure that my chilren did not even think of the Army as a career. Any youngster who asks for my advice on a career in the armed forces is told not to join.I am not an exception in giving such advice.
    I only request all those who are so upset about the Army having excellent perks not to talk about things they have not experienced.If you envy us so much volunteer for a three year stint in the NE without your family. I have done five such tenures.
    ] So let us fight our battle with the Government. You fight yours. Let us not play into the politicians hands and fight amongst ourselves

  14. Anonymous10:00 PM

    Bravo! Mr sskumar. you have got the tiger by tail.

  15. Anonymous10:03 PM

    When the going gets tough it is the tough who gets going.Armed forces are the last hope for this nation .This has been amply proved during Kargil.No compensation is in fact enough for the sacrifices made by our beloved forces.Therefore the tone of sskumar advocating against the forces in genral is immature.
    Lastly I strongly feel that any one had been joining army for the money.we joined this finest service for the IZZAT it had in earlier times which is being eroded with every pay commission .If the grade pay alone would determine the equvilance of posts with our civil counter parts the middle rank officers up to col are degraded most.This trend should not only reverse but should effectively bring back the status of each rank by suitably increasing the grade pay which may be few hundreds to few thousands.

    Nevertheless,certain points brought out by short sighted kumar show some vision.Case in point is the CSD benifit.The XLRI has brought out that the cost of providing CSD benifit to army personnel is far more than the cost itself.It needs a fresh look by army men themselves as now many a companies are providing similar facilities and in future would be able to compete with CSD.The proposal of XLRI to revisit the issue of CSD so as to see how much benifit it is providing vis a vis the cost of providing this benifit.
    Similar to this various other facilities that are given in kind such as free ration,free medical ,free acomodation free transport can be given in cash as they remove the overheads of providing such services.In kind should be restricted to areas where no one would be able to get them from market such as field areas.

  16. Anonymous11:28 PM

    People like SSKumar need to be hung by their B$%#^ (in true fauji parlance). They dont deserve to be taken to sacred places like Siachen/Desserts or for that matter the high seas which are safeguarded by our valientarmed forces. Jokers like him who talk out of their hat & open their hole with shallow knowledge (just as most of our politicians do) plague our nation. I have many of my classmates in Armed forces & have had the occassion of visiting them during my vacations. Let me tell all you guys there in Uniform - Out heart bleeds for you & we salute you for the selfless devotion to duty exhibited by eaach one of you

  17. Anonymous1:48 AM


  18. Anonymous12:18 PM

    In our country we still have people like sskumar who do nothing for country, nothing for public, have no pride in county.

    I feel safe. The country is in safe hand despite provocation and barking people like sskumar

    RIP sskumar

  19. Anonymous12:47 PM

    Mr SS Kumar seems to have lost his mind. he has forgotten that it is armed force we call be it a strom, earthquake, water calmiity or any kind of tradedy. It is soilders and officers who are dying each day serving the nation and by drowning in Pub as is seen in private sector today. I wish he just spends a month in one of the high alititde areas or a ship or a airbase at north eastern state(his choice) and then comment. He seems to have disregarded privlages like sodexo pass and other free coprate member ships by private sector and the clout enjoyed by IAS and IPS.

  20. Anonymous4:36 PM

    It is a pity, Mr S S Kumar is reiterating views that he himself does not know. I am sure, most of what he has written stands no logic and is just a hearsay. I ve put in almost 12 years in the armed forces and i can vouch what mrs sachar has written echoes the view of atleast 95% of the armed forces. talking of sprwaling bungalows in lutyens delhi- well there are just about 125 odd major genrals in the entire army spread across the complete country compared to the equal number of similar designations in the civil services in delhi alone.
    I can vouch that the rations we get are of such a poor quality that most of it is unusable. Remember, it has been procurred from the lowest bidder. the ration allce daily is Rs 31. I dont know, what quality of ration is posible to be given in a measly Rs 31.
    Mr s s Kumar has very kindly penned about previlages in armed forces without even knowing whether they exist on ground. I ve been trying to leave the army for last two years , but it is They are just not releasing officers.

  21. Kudos to Mrs Nina Sachar. Mr SS Kumar seems to have a lot of knowledge about the armed forces. Where did you read it Mr Kumar. Cause the reality is far from it. I am not trying to change your opinion. You seem to be a hard nut. But you are a typical case of the frog in the well- If I cant get out neither will you.
    2. Mr Kumar - you obviosly dont know anything about the NDA. It is that 12th pass who has led india to victory every time. And by the way after four years he DOES become a graduate and is an adult like his friends who come through the CDS.
    3. Yes we do get free rations and CSD and the comfort of homes. But thats a small price when you bet your life. Would you bet your life Mr Kumar. Do you know how it feels when you say bye to your kid when you leave for the field? But then we get CSD and free rations.
    4.And who said it made our pay 4.5 times. Take it all away and just pay us for it.
    5.Mr Kumar remember when you raise a finger the other three are pointing at you.

  22. Anonymous8:59 PM

    Mr Kumar does not appear to know that in the services ":leave is only a privelege and not a right:"
    he does not know that everyone does not get the leave as and when one pleases. everything is subject to the exigencies of service.
    Also how many civilians have shot their senior officers for not giving leave.it has happened only in the services where leave was probably denied due to "exigencies":
    also every serviceman is on duty for 24 hours a day.when you are out on exercises or on a ship or in operations time does not count.
    so mr kumar better do his homework before passing such comments.
    this is only on one part of his comments.

  23. I wish people cogently argue their case instead of abusing me. In any case I ignore their abusive language and pay attention to their comments.

    First of all, let me clear one point. Where have I stated that people serving in hard and difficult areas, hill tops and deep sea should not be rewarded? While you cannot compensate such jawans who really sacrifice their life by paying them few more rupees/benefits, in all my comments, I have reiterated that those who are serving in difficult places, deserve what has been given to them and may be more, as a token of our gratitude. My point is why do you demand the same facilities and perks to those who do babugiri in metros and cities? Why do you ask increased pay & perk in the name of those who guard our borders and sea and enjoy it while sitting in the kushy atmosphere of delhi, mumbai, kolkatta , chennai and other cities? Yes, when you go to border, high seas, you should get more. But when you come to peace area, you should get what others get. Take the case of foreign service officers. When they go out of India, they are paid in dollars and euros. When they come back to South Block, they are in the same babu’s scale. It is neither honest nor correct on the part of majority by trying to get the benefit in the name of few who are in the far flunk difficult places.

    Second point. Leaving few exceptions, you choose a career because you feel that it suits you and you will be able to contribute something and receive reward for it. Why do you bring into play IZZAT, honour, sacrifice, patriotism etc. and get worked up as if some one is trying to grab these values from the Services? Are these qualities exclusively owned by those Indians who are serving only in the Armed Forces? Take the case of Border Roads Organisation, Coast Guard Organisation, BSF. They don’t belong to Armed Forces. Are they not putting in hard work in difficult terrain and hills? Coast Guards are fighting day in and day out with smugglers, terrorists and pirates.? BRO workers are sacrificing their lives while laying roads for us in unimaginable areas. Are they not hard working and patriotic? Why you limit to security related services ? What about nuclear scientists working with most hazardous material? Railway employees, engine drivers seering through the country in 45 degree heat, when we sit in AC compartments? What about doctors in government hospitals who have to work 14 hours a day? Are they all not serving the nation? Are they not patriotic ? By declaring that “service officers are sacrificing. They are serving the nation etc. etc.” you are trying to belittle others. If service officers are vigilant and keep the enemy at bay in the border, it is their duty, as is the duty of the teacher to teach, doctor to treat, engineer to build. All who do their duty properly, consciously, honestly, without nepotism and corruption are patriots. A honest municipality sweeper is more patriotic than a dishonest and corrupt bureaucrat or soldier.

    Lastly, the point raised by a senior officer who retired seven years back. Sir, you talk of re-employment by your civilian colleagues. Agreed, they manage to get good placements even though they retired late, when they are sixty. But, please remember Sir, all of them are not getting absorbed because of nepotism. Market is a ruthless place. The civilians have spent their life in the same milieu and get easily absorbed. It is not the case with service officers. They are not able to adjust in the civil life. It is a sad fact that in most of the places where they get re-employed, whether it is in private or public sector, there is problem regarding their attitude, demands, stiff behaviour and rule quoting nature. They forget the fact that the days of statutory petitions, redressal of grievances petition and complaint against ACRs have ended with their retirement and they should adjust to the civil mode. Yes Sir, you have done the right thing by advising your children not to join the Services lest they may feel that they are privileged to ‘serve the nation’ generation after generation and therefore they are more than equal. Let them go to civil market and learn the realities of life.

    If you manage to pressurize the government and managed to get more and by quoting you if babus manage to get more, it is really jolly go round! Carry on and enjoy till our country becomes another Zimbabwe with 100000% inflation. Thank you all.

  24. Anonymous1:32 PM

    mr SS Kumar.. Armed forces is not a place where we use and throw over men and officers... where we take a economic viw of benefits when working in a field and working in peace stations.... Armed Forces is a way of life ...an act of surrender of your best years of life and comforts to defend this country ( consisting also of sic... uninformed, thankless people like you) from any eventuality and be sent to any place by land ..sea or air.... No self respecting citizen will ever ask why we give so much to over armed forces.... They ask why dontt we give much more...... The reason we have people like you in this country is becouse you have not seen a war.. you dontt have any one who died in battle... when there is war,, it is concentrated in the Northern borders of this country ... souhern India is largly ineffected... taste battle buddy.... u will take back every single alphabet you have uttered since the beginning of this blog.... and pray for a peace posting... You r obviously a thanklesss indian like many others in this ungratefull country...

  25. Anonymous3:08 PM

    Person like MR SS Kumar are all thankless bastards who have no knowledge of Armed Forces.
    These people enjoy life staying with their families and children never to bother for the admission / readmission of their children
    Can he ever tell how difficult is it for family of a defenece personnel to fend for self when staying alone in seaparted houses in unknown cities.
    These so called civil schools supoosed to be built on Defenece land do not even entertain children of defenec for admiision
    Has any body known the mental trauma children undergo while seeking admission from one school to another
    These so called tthankless prsons like SS Kumar has never undegone such type of experience that is why he feel safe and happy commenting on something of which he has no knowldge Advise to him: Please stick to your profession unless UR so called job has given u so much time to comment on other professions

  26. Anonymous3:10 PM

    Mr ss, enligtening u about the pressures of services

    (a) if work hard and do well always in operational areas ie away from families and if you are important, forget 90 days even 30 days is considered luxury

    (b) if u dont work or pretend to be inefficient. beware jawan expectations are very high. instant justice which later can be attributed to his mental state.

    (c) Statusquoist, dont take decision, courtmartial is inevitable u even loose ur pension.

    i wish i could be like u, just chill, maitain status quo in everything from national boundaries to pay commissions

    jai hind

  27. Anonymous4:13 PM

    SS Let me lay my hands on you.... On second thoughts....i dont want to get my hands dirty!!!!!hahahaha....Boy you r the pits. I dont have words to describe a guy like you.

    Let me narrate this one little episode which happened with my dad who served in the Indian Army before he retired. Mr SS Kumar may b able to relate himself with one of the characters in this story.

    Dad was posted to a station where, he was commanding a unit. In the normal course Army generally puts in dedicated effort in the general upliftment of the area around it & this was no exception. However there was this Mr SS Kumar OOps!!! i mean one Mr XYZ who owned a big factory in that area. He treated all these efforts with absolute indifference as these activities did not contribute to his kitty. One day as dad was passing by Mr SS Kumar's OOps.... sorry I mean Mr XYZ's office, the jeep had a flat tire, this @## ho$% walked out of his office & indirectly ridiculed Dad publicly for encouraging the NGOs operating in that area. He cared two hoots for all the public ire he earned from his actions.

    Well, in due course, dad finished his tenure & two years passed . Unfortunately, communal riots broke out in the same station & dad's unit was recalled to control the situation. As soon as the word was out that Dad was back in town NGO reps & aquaintances came out in large numbers to tell him that they were all out to help him & had full faith in him based on their past experience. But lo & behold he had one unexpected visitor!!! Ofcourse Mr SS Kumar... OOps sorry ( Oh god - when will i improve....) I mean Mr XYZ. This gentleman, to my dad's utter embarrassment ran into my dad's office lay down flat on the ground, placed his Pagri in my dad's feet & started howling. He had to be picked up by 2 jawans, put on the chair & given a few glasses of water before he could be asked what exactly was the prob.
    & then between his sobs he explained that from the time he had misbehaved with dad, his relation with the locals had deteriorated.He had ruthlessly expanded his business trampling over the houses & property of the poor in the last two years. He never catered for an eventuality of this nature.The locals had already lynched his family alive & were all set to raid his factory under the garb of Communal Riots. He requested dad to position his troops & a machine gun outside his factory ............... & the story goes on.....

    SS Kumar, visualise this : you are chief minister of a state (just visualise because you would never get anywhere close to that.... on second thoughts, going by the present state of politicians in our country you r another catastrophe waiting to happen to our country's Polity.... OH forget it!!) terrorist attacks /communal riots have broken out & things are getting out of hand!!! Now whom do you call BSF!!! no no maybe BRO no no probably nuclear scientists!!!! or is it Railway Engine Drivers TCH TCH TCH.

    Someone in this blog sugested hanging this #$% by his B@##$. COunt me in pal. It would be a dream come true !!!

  28. Anonymous10:52 PM



  29. Anonymous7:34 AM

    Mr SS Kumar,

    Hearsay and facts have miles of difference, why put your ass on line and get kicked or you are one of those who draws pleasure from getting kicked.

    Anyway all these sentiments expressed by so many people against your comments cannot be wrong, dont fool yourself of ebing right because you have no one here supporting your 'out of the world' comments.

    Experience the conditions armed forces work in once for yourself to understand what these people mean.

  30. Anonymous8:38 AM

    I have a few questions for sskumar. What is your grouse against the Armed Forces asking for better pay? After all it is comparative. With the new pay structure the IAS officer who has a real kushi job and does nothing compared to the Armed Forces gets more pay than an armed forces officer. The pay commission is by the IAS of the IAS and for the IAS.
    Lets talk about cost to government for IAS officers. (You will say it is headed by a Justice, but look a little more than just skin deep). Let us talk of privileges enjoyed by them, the civil servants.
    What about promotions for the IAS? Assured promotion to the rank of Secretary! Where as in the Armed Forces at the rank of Major/junior Lt Col (and equivalent) the forces can tell an officer they will no longer be promoted above the rank of Col (that too in 26 years). The system of the armed forces is such that despite such a verdict has to work and work hard.
    Once they retire, as the Col has brought out, they have ensured that there is employment for them in the form of Tribunals of all kinds, including one now that sits in judgment on the verdict of Military Court Martials.
    The armed forces do not allow officers to leave in case they know they will not make it to higher ranks and people pass their prime therefore they find it difficult to find employment in the civil street.
    It is a matter of comparison, finally. Work your maths, you will see that an IAS officer gets promoted faster, gets better pay and privileges, serves longer, reaches higher grades and then finds a job to support him after retired life and he ends up with two pensions.
    You would ask, well if it is so attractive why did you join the armed forces? You should have joined the IAS or whatever. I would say this, that the nation needs the Armed Forces, you want us, you need us. We do all the dirty work and then you start questioning what we get and do not want to pay us? For Indians freedom is free. It seems that India is an ungrateful nation and pays lip service to honouring those who defend her.
    I do not know where to start and where to end trying to explain what happens in the Armed Forces and why life is tough even in a place like Mumbai.
    Some quick comments:
    I think that no organisation in the country looks after the welfare of the subordinates as the Armed Forces - compare with the IAS and IFS etc. do not look at it in isolation and come and see the ground realities.
    Please continue to ignore the rantings of Anonymous, he is a typical junior officer, full of adrenaline, and so on. Lot of us (and our wives also) feel angry at your blatant ignorance but that is no reason to get abusive. But remember, he has a point that you shouldn't miss.
    There are many more who would like to respond and tell you their experiences but either do not have the time or do not want to express their views in the media, which is against rules (therefore anonymous and me are breaking rules, by blogging - May the Armed Forces forgive us)
    Discipline is still a hallmark of the defence forces, otherwise in a country where bundhs, protests, strikes, etc. are prevalent the armed forces could be the first one to put their arms down, God forbid this should happen. So we endure in silence.
    This discussion is still on ...

  31. Anonymous4:32 PM

    Who says, the armed forces looks after its men. u toil hard for 18 yrs only to know, u r useless one day and are thrown around like a c***d*m.
    Maybe, we deserve this

  32. Anonymous3:41 PM

    I meant we look after the welfare of the jawan, sailor or airman, much better than the babu looks after the welfare of his non-officer cadre.
    I agree with you in that the Armed Forces does not care for the officer, it is a use and throw policy. If you are lucky you will get thrownn later.

  33. Anonymous6:53 PM

    Pl don't use foul language. Mr kumar has raised some valid points.Is there anyone who can talk for the PBORs? None of u officers have raised your voice for your subordinate PBORs.By going through the comments of Mr Kumar, it is evident that he has got a good knowledge about the armed forces. There is no scarecity of talented people who r interested to join forces. The fact is that Top Brass of forces started pretending for last two years to get better scales for officers.I have seen it all during my 19.5 Years'career in IAF (as PBOR),what Mr Kumar has talked about. The situation in army is worse.Further, there is no dearth of talented young jawans/aiemen/sailors who can be trained as officers. If they can be selected for civil class I/II jobs, they are certainly fit for army or air force.
    There is no doubt that the Pay Comn has given a raw deal to mid level officers by placing them in a single running pay scale but the PBORs in the forces are the worst sufferers of this pay panel. The PBORs have been placed in the pay band of class-IV employees of civil, why no one is raising any voice for them.Now don't say that the service chiefs have met the m/o Defence and pay panel for this, they have mainly demanded better scales for mid-level officers and just about raising the MSP for PBORs.Let us have healthy discussion and not abuse some one whose comments are undigetable for us.

  34. Anonymous9:45 PM

    My dear friend from the IAF,
    I agree with you that people should not use abusive language even though they feel angry. However, I do not agree with you on other counts. You need to go to the root of the problem, the armed forces is asking to be de-linked from the Pay Commission/for a separate body to review their pay or for members from the Armed Forces to form members of the Pay Commission. Therefore, if PBORs have been equated to Class IV Govt. employees, it is thanks to ignorant people you know where and not the fault of your CO or the COAS. I am sure that SSKumar is not in the Armed Forces nor has 'good knowledge' of the Armed Forces as he is not addressing the basic problems.
    Talking about PBOR becoming officers (BTW, this is not the theme of the discussion, SSKumar is nicely leading us to digress from the main issue once again) There are many talented personnel among the PBOR who join as PBOR ecause of lack of exposure or circumstancces and thereafter become officers. In fact they have opportunity at every stage, to join NDA, CDS, ACC, you name it. In addition, there are in service entry schemes for selection to officer rank. Then there is the possibility of becoming an officer after crossing the rank of Havldar (and equivalent). I am aware of a large number of officers who have been PBOR (in all three services) and even risen to the rank of General Officer (and equivalent) I can't comment intelligently on the state of the IAF presently but it is surely there in the Navy and Army. In fact, is the duty of officers to select talent from among the PBOR and encourage them/train them. If officers in the Air Force are not doing it, which I doubt, then it is a shame. You must realise that there are many cases when a good jawan, sailor or airman would have been a better PBOR but has been selected for officer grade and done poorly thereafter and then all PBOR cannot become officers for obvious reasons.
    You are probably ill informed of the measures that are being taken for the welfare of the PBOR. You may not be aware, but post AVSC recommendations, teh Armed Forces have been made similar recommendations to the government for PBOR - assured promotion prospectus. Similarly, as far as the VI pay Commission is concerned, I am not sure as to what the COSC has recommended to the Def. Minister. If you are aware that they have not talked about PBOR being placed in the same pay band as the Class IV employee please show me what is the source of your information is. You have confidently said that they mainly demanded better scales for mid level officers of just about raising the MSP for PBOR. You need to exercise caution while making sweeping statements.
    You have missed the point, today the Pay Commission without a single service officer on it has made recommendations that have had a detrimental effect on the Armed Forces as a whole (officers and PBOR). This is based on their own observations and a study by XLRI. You read their observations and you can see that they are misinformed. I ask you tell this forum about your leave, about your housing, about canteen, travel concessions, education for your children, AFWWA and all the so called privileges, what do you feel? Putting all this together, is it worth 3.5 to 4 times the salary you earn? Compare it with other civil servants... I will not delve further here. Yes we are grateful for these privileges BUT...compare this what an equivalent rank in the IAS/IFS gets and you will be surprised. Firstly, the civil service has very little loyalty downward. Secondly, the privileges enjoyed by the civil servants are far more than you can even imagine. Why don't we talk of Cost to Government for them? Thirdly, they get promoted faster and serve longer. Fourthly, they look after themselves, so well that you will not imagine, not only while in service but afterwards also.
    You and me are in an organisation that takes its responsibility seriously, in fact too seriously, and it better do so. It is because of this that you find people working beyond working hours (if there is something like that for the Armed Forces. I am using this term to make a comparison with civil servants. I ask you my friend to tell us about your own 'working hours'). At the end of it, the Army, Navy or Air Force will tell you ‘well done’ but there is someone better than you, you can not be promoted or you need to leave the service - Use and throw and then you are useless since you will not find any employment in the civil street that easily, unless you are lucky. Maybe because of our institutional attitude we find ourselves (especially the Army) deployed everywhere Kashmir, Assam, Golden Temple, Sri Lanka (IPKF), flood relief, Tsunami relief, evacuation of refugees, name it. Can you imagine coming late to work, misusing government facilities, will your boss allow it? There is much that can be said but I shall let you extrapolate.
    Indigestible, the only thing that is indigestible is the attitude of the civil servants; of course nothing can be done about that. I am sure that people who have to serve will continue to serve, maybe at some time in the future the implications of the selfishness of the civil servants will be apparent to all. It is a wonder that our country manages to progress despite their efforts.

  35. Anonymous6:58 PM

    I have the highest regard for our professional soldiers. Let us understand the origin of the shortage of officers that we talk of. Is it that the armed forces are filling in all the seats at various academies while recruiting students at NDA or IMA? In fact, this is the stage where the shortages arise first. On the plea that those who took exams could not be found of a certain standard to find place in these academies. Is it so that the number of young men applying to enter these academies is less that the total number of seats offered? The simple answer is no. The seats offered are always oversubscribed significantly. They do not take the young men desirous of becoming officers saying that OLQs were sub-standard. Let us ask the commanders of these academies if the purpose of training is not to develop OLQs. If the shortage is there at the time of intake, it will continue all the way. Sometimes I really wonder what if the premier institutes of technology in India take the same plea and leave a number of seats vacant. It will certainly lead to shortage of trained personnels in medium and long term. Therefore, I would sincerely suggest that those who are joining the armed forces are there as professionals and government servants. As far as patriotism goes, a person on the street may also display the same amount of patriotism as any officer or soldier in the armed forces. There should be no doubt in anybody's mind that a software professionals who is earning foreign exchange and contributing to the Indian economy is as much a patriot as anyone else. So, let us say the armed forces is just another job in India like any other branch of the government. I will not like to discuss other aspects such as corruption in the armed forces, financial irregularities and holier than thou approach. This may be demoralising for our brave soldiers. Therefore, my sincere advice to the recruiters - increase intake and do not insist on OLQs at the time of the intake and take pride in developing the same during their training.

  36. Anonymous10:42 PM

    I agree with u on the subject of lowering the standards in the intake but who will be responsible when a post is lost or an order not obeyed or during a fight with the extremists the guy just decides its enough or when he is sent to his mentor within short stint in the uniform ?
    If we have a solution 2 these questions I agree with u why have all this rigmarole of selection just take all who fill the form and all problems of shortages r resolved. BUT GOODBI SANITY

  37. Anonymous11:04 PM

    if the generals in the army airforce navy cannot get the dues for their subordinates with what face can they ask the soldiers 2 lay their life 4 the motherland ? I think they should resign in disgrace if they r generals of this glorious army. maybe then the worth of the army will b understood bi all

  38. Anonymous3:06 PM

    I happen to read through the entire comments and arguments of various people about the Armed Forces pay hike. The comments by a person whom I don't want to name had created uprising of emotions and anger. My request to the valiant Officers and soldiers of the armed forces is that do not get entangled with an illogical person and waste your time. You don't have to justify your service to the nation by explaining to an ignorant person. He has not mentioned what his background is? Where he is working? If in government service, whether he is a Group A, B, C, or D? It is evident by his comments that he is ill-informed and has some personal grievances against the armed forces.

    It took the initiative and intervention of the then Defence Minister to make even the civilian Officers of MOD to understand the difficulties faced by the armed forces by sending some of them to the Siachen Glacier for moving a file. Therefore it is beyond our reach to make a person who is ignorant and unable to understand the way of life and the nuances of the armed forces. Since ours is a democratic country, anybody who is not even remotely connected with the issue can also comment on subjects in which they are totally ignorant.

    We have to take up our case with the people who can solve our problem and we can only argue with people who have knowledge of the ground realities.

    The argument by some that we are all fighting for more pay is wrong. The armed forces are only projecting to the government that there should be equality in pay and status in par with their civilian counterparts. This is applicable for both officers and men.

  39. Anonymous7:27 PM

    This is a post from some other blog/source, worth adding here


    By Brig. V Mahalingam (Retired)

    The pay
    commission has done it yet again. The Army has not been equated with the IAS.
    Was it not expected? The problem with the Services is, we are not prepared to
    change or learn. I believe, the so-called pyramid is a self-created one and the
    problem can be overcome only if we are prepared to change. There are two clear
    ways out of the problem.

    The first requirement is for the Army to be
    prepared to de-link military ranks from our appointments. Once it is done, the
    government can be approached to increase the number of vacancies in various
    ranks in the same ratio as that of the IAS to provide better career progression
    to the Army Officers. The Government too will not be able to deny that.
    is the problem if a Major General is the Camp Commandant of the Brigade
    Headquarters? Haven't we seen as many as twenty DGPs in States holding various
    appointments including deputation vacancies such as Chairman of the State
    Housing Boards? Aren't DGP ranked officers co – existing as DGP (Training), DGP
    (Welfare), Commissioner of Police etc?
    We are obsessed with the military
    ranks, decorations, awards and medals which in this country mean nothing. You
    realize it only when you are out of the uniform. These have been created by
    vested interests to put the servicemen off track so that they are blinded in a
    manner as not to see the real issues. Who cares if you are a Retired Brigadier
    or a Captain?
    What difference does it make if you are a Mahavir Chakra
    gallantry award winner or otherwise? Haven't we heard of the bureaucrat who
    questioned the necessity of instituting a medal for the 1971 Indo–Pak war and
    its financial implications? He obviously felt that the sacrifice of the men in
    uniform was not even worth a hundred rupees which is the cost of the medal and
    its handling. Does any civil servant or a Government official give you your dues
    leave alone respect you?

    The second alternative is to insist on a pay
    band, which gives our officers the pay scale equivalent to the IAS at every
    stage, based on the number of years of service. The rank should play no part in
    the scheme of things. This will also end the rat race for promotion in the Army.
    If the Army wishes to maintain some income edge for serving commanders, the
    solution is a command pay for officers holding command appointments at various
    levels of command. Command Appointments are not very many and can be easily
    accommodated with hardly any financial implication. The rest needs to be covered
    by a hazardous pay to compensate all ranks for the service conditions in
    military service.
    This will automatically enhance the retirement pension of
    all ranks at the time of hanging up ones uniform.

    The BSF, CRPF and other
    CPOs battalions have a system of maintaining a location as the base location to
    which all ranks are posted and positioned. All operations and duties are
    performed from the operational location, which is well away from the Base. All
    ranks performing various duties at the operational location are thus entitled to
    TA / DA for the duration of their stay which is virtually their entire service
    and tenure. Why can't we change and adopt this method, which is beneficial to
    our men? Have the BSF, CRPF and other CPO units and Para Military units become
    inferior to the Army units in any way? In today's India, ranks, decorations, and
    the so-called "Shan" mean nothing and money means everything. The sooner we
    realize it, the better it is for the Army.

    The country has enacted Labour
    Laws, which stipulate the maximum number of hours of work that can be extracted
    from a worker, including the staff working in the various State and Central
    Government offices and departments. Additional hours of work put in by these
    workers are termed over time and are paid for at double the rates of the normal
    These laws are based on scientific reasoning and are meant to prevent
    exploitation of the worker. It is a well-known fact a soldier in the army
    especially in the arms is made to train and work anything between
    15 to 18
    hours a day both in field and in peace stations. The question is, is military
    training and service any less strenuous than the work in any Government
    Department? Are the army men genetically different from rest of our countrymen?
    Is the army then exploiting its soldiers? Why cannot we demand overtime for our
    soldiers whenever they are made to work beyond a reasonable number of hours a
    day? Why can't a soldier have time to himself and his family at least in peace
    stations? If such luxuries cannot be given to the soldiers, some one has to pay
    for it and the payment has to be in line with the civil services.

    Services assume a number of things without any basis. In their enthusiasm to
    prove to the world that they are the best, they do things which they are not
    required to and which they are not meant to.
    Obviously, in this material
    world, what one has done over and above one's prescribed duties cannot be paid
    for. The Services on the other hand feel that their hard work hasn't been
    recognized and feel let down.
    Let us take a look at a few

    The Army assumes that it is the sole guardian of the country,
    created to solve all problems for which it is employed. It is time we realized
    that the Army is merely a tool in the hands of the Government in power, (The
    Defence Forces are not part of the Government while the bureaucracy is) to keep
    their own "kursis" warm. Haven't we seen commanders insisting on capture of
    weapons and kills at any cost and branding a unit inefficient when they could
    not produce the so-called results? Haven't unit and formation commanders been
    penalized for not bringing in more kills and weapons? Haven't our troops in good
    faith, out of perceived loyalty to seniors, Regimental Spirit and "Izzat" gone
    over board resulting in custodial deaths? Who is responsible for such
    happenings? The Army needs to learn to do its job, and be correct – nothing more
    nothing less. Army is deployed in insurgency-affected areas to keep the levels
    of violence at an acceptable level so as to create conditions to enable the
    politicians and the Administrative machinery to resolve the issue. They are not
    there either to eliminate all insurgents and their sympathizers or to capture
    all weapons in the affected area. Bringing peace in an insurgency-affected area
    is the responsibility of the political system and the governing body and not
    that of the Army. Our enthusiasm creates more problems than solving. The Army
    needs to learn from the IAS in matters like this. Do they ever take a decision
    or responsibility even on issues for which they are supposedly responsible? Why
    do things, which one is not required to?

    In 1990, when the problem in J
    & K demanded the induction of additional troops from Nagaland, formations
    were moved post haste, on verbal instructions followed by signals from the SD
    Directorate, a part of the Army Headquarters. Almost eight months after the move
    of the formations, when the officers put up their Permanent move claims, the
    claims were returned by the Controller of Defence Accounts (Officers) stating
    that they required a valid move sanction for passing the claims. Requests were
    sent to Army Headquarters through the formation headquarters up the channel for
    the issue of necessary move sanctions to enable the claims to be passed.
    Accordingly, the Army Headquarters issued the move sanction. The claims were
    however not passed stating that the Army Headquarters were not the competent
    authority to move the formations and a Government sanction is required for the
    purpose. The question is, why were the formations moved without a proper written
    move sanction from the Government? What was the hurry? Isn't it a clear case of
    misplaced enthusiasm? The government finally issued the move sanction after a
    humiliating delay and discussions on the file. The Army Headquarters were made
    to feel as if they had moved the formation for their personal benefit. Had the
    army's hierarchy insisted on a written move sanction before the actual movement
    of the formation, the humiliation could have been avoided.

    Flood relief
    operations, disaster management, riot control, rescue operations of civilians
    who fall in a well accidentally, opening of an oil pipe line blocked by
    agitating industrial workers, Asiad games, cleaning up a village consequent to
    out break of a disease – you name anything and the army seems to be the
    solution. The Army feels that it is a know all organization, which is competent
    to handle any situation.
    At the end of the day, the politicians and the local
    administration invariably take the credit for the resolution of the
    Obviously the frustration of the rank and file of the army becomes
    visible. The question is, is the army trained to perform all such duties? Do we
    have the necessary equipment and expertise to handle such situations? Are we
    better than the civil engineers of the irrigation department to handle a flood
    situation? Are they not being paid? If they are not good enough to handle the
    situation, it is the problem of the government. Why and where do we figure in
    such situations? Hasn't the Government created the CRPF to manage riot
    situations? Aren't they organized, trained and equipped to manage riots? Why
    aren't we protesting when we are called upon to perform such duties, which we
    are not meant to? Why aren't the men getting paid for the additional
    responsibilities and duties performed by them? Will any other government
    employee take on any such duties? Why is the rule different for the Army? These
    issues need serious introspection and we need to change, if the Army's worth is
    to be realized by the people and the Government.
    There is a need to define
    the Army's role and duties and anything beyond that, needs to be paid for. There
    are no free lunches in our country today.

    The Indian Military Academy and
    the National Defence Academy not being fully subscribed is not the army's
    problem. It is the problem of the Government. It is for the Government to decide
    as to how potential officers are to be attracted to serve the army. The Army
    needs to lay down the minimum number of officers required to be posted in a unit
    to classify it as operationally fit and functionally viable to manage the
    available manpower and equipment till the required number of officers are made
    available. Where the strength of the officers go below the laid down standards,
    the unit concerned should be classified unfit for war or
    un- maintainable
    respectively and the Government notified for such action as considered necessary
    and appropriate. The bureaucrats and the ministers are paid for the purpose and
    not the army.

    Where do we go from here? Can the services ever have its
    say in India?
    Yes. The solution lies in creating a Services constituency and
    the servicemen and the ex – servicemen being able to elect their representative
    to the Lok Sabha and the Legislative Assemblies. The postal ballot system has
    not worked satisfactorily for various reasons.
    The servicemen live away from
    their homes all through the best part of their lives. As a result, they are
    neither aware of politics nor the local politicians. They derive no benefit from
    the present political system. The local politicians have no concern for the
    problems of the servicemen. Local issues do not concern the servicemen. He has a
    world of his own. He therefore needs his world to give him what he needs the
    most. He is entitled to, voice his concerns and problems in the Parliament so
    that his problems and needs are understood and resolved within the framework of

    Accordingly, representatives to the Services Constituency
    need to be elected by all the serving and ex – servicemen separately at the time
    of General Elections and elections to the State Assemblies. The contestants may
    be servicemen, ex – servicemen or civilians not holding any office.
    They may
    be from any political party or independents. Photo identity cards for election
    purposes can be issued to servicemen and ex - servicemen and elections conducted
    under the arrangements of the Election Commission assisted by the services at
    unit locations for servicemen and in various states for ex – servicemen.
    Election campaigns can be conducted through the media and by visits to units and
    formations where possible. In any case the soldier has no access to election
    campaigns even in the present set up. Until and unless the services can get this
    implemented no one would ever care for the services in this era.

    Does the
    country deserve the type of Armed Forces that we have inherited in our country
    today? A conversation between OSD at the Directorate General Resetlement,
    Ministry of Defence and me would perhaps provide a realistic answer to the
    question. I was wounded in war and was posted to the Directorate General
    Resettlement, Ministry of Defence in 1973 immediately after a year's
    hospitalization to enable me to get an ear surgery done at the Army Hospital
    Delhi, which had been damaged during the war. The facility for microsurgery of
    the ear was available only at the Army Hospital Delhi Cantt then. Immediately on
    posting, I was directed to meet all officers of the directorate to get to know
    the charter and working of the organization as a part of induction training and
    familiarization. I came across a Director renk IAS officer Mr Menon who was
    positioned as the OSD War Widows' call. He informed me that he has been
    positioned at the DGR in addition to his own duties in the Ministry to
    coordinate provision of Gas Agencies to War Widows and Petrol Pumps to the war
    wounded officers. On a query he told me that the gas agencies and petrol pumps,
    which were allotted for the purpose, were not adequate to meet the requirement
    and they have been distributed even before he joined the organization. He had
    nothing more to distribute to the applicants on the waiting list. There was a
    long waiting list and the applicants were regularly visiting the DGR hoping for
    the miracle to happen. On a query as to what was he doing about it now, he told
    me that he spent about an hour or so in DGR every day and was just passing time
    at the cost of his main job. He also informed me that there was no chance of
    getting any more Gas Agencies or Petrol pumps for allotment, as it was too
    lucrative a business to be given away to these categories of people. I grew
    curious and asked him why then was he here. "I am here just to enable the
    government to tell the Parliament that a Special Cell has been created in the
    Ministry to look after the welfare of the war widows and the war wounded,"
    replied the officer. Till I left the organization in 1976, no more gas agencies
    or petrol pumps were allotted barring two ladies who had personally met Mrs
    Gandhi and got gas agencies allotted to themselves.

    It is unfortunate
    that the genuine spirit, the National pride and interest of the servicemen and
    the ex - servicemen have not been recognized by the political and the
    administrative system in the country. The people for obvious reasons are mute
    spectators to the whole issue. It is therefore apparent that the servicemen and
    the ex - servicemen need to strengthen themselves through the available methods,
    within the political system and the system of governance in the country.
    needs to be done urgently for the benefit of the future generation of
    servicemen. If the servicemen and ex - servicemen expect the system to deliver,
    they are mistaken.


    Brigadier PT Gangadharan( Guards)
    Kozhikode(Calicut) -673016

  40. I do not want to waste too much of time writing comments,butif Armed Forces have to be paid the best else we will have a demotivated forces and god save our country .
    We may be forced to sort out everyone like Pakis have been doing.
    Mutiny, Revolt,etc,etc...............

  41. Anonymous3:15 PM

    The argument continues..!! but to what avail? the army as we wanted it to be..dreamed of ..is dead long ago. today it is just a bunch of self centered, corrupt and spineless top brass leading a group of good men. and the good men dont have a say in how they want to be led...the beaureucrats run the show for the entire nation exactly the way they want it..and they are running the army too..and the guys who are supposed to actually speak out have never done so..so why would the babus listen to us today..as far as they are concerned the army brass is not showing any flashes of genius anyway..so why waste money in "attracting" talent??!! all they need are men who stand guard at the door while they make hay...and then there is no problem as far as weapons are concerned ..give them good equipment( of course the weapons come with a good incentive..!!) and send them off to kill or get killed ..the foes can be anyone they have created with their machinations...the pakis, the kashmiris, the manipuris or the 'naxalites'. you dont need brains to shoot or be shot...it is that easy for them and a lot of others... no one is bothered..
    the rot is in deep..very deep... and our own guys who could have stemmed the rot are interested only in their next promotion or posting...the babus have ensured that...

  42. Anonymous6:27 PM

    Well well lot of blood boiling on the net.
    With due regards to the views of Mr Kumar I would like to point out that in the history of our nation it has been the armed forces and I emphasize "Armed Forces" and not army which have never failed to deliver whatever the situation.
    While those in the govt jobs can never hope to get the salaries of private sector I dont think anybody would grudge the armed forces a better pay package and perks to say the least.
    And yes the bad conditions on the sea, air or land where we operate are those which can be very glamorous to outsiders but beleive me you can never ever have a mathematical equivalent of these conditions.
    When Mr Kumar talks of sprawling bunglows he should also talk in the same length of the one room common toilet facilities for most middle level officers in the field areas. If a Maj Gen has a bunglow to himself in Delhi so do many more equivalent ranks of other govt dept.They are never on the questioning block are they.Well simple they are not in uniform.
    And yes a normal survey would bear out the fact that most officers would pefer that the so called perks of CSD, rail concessions etc are taken off and cash given in kind.
    Do people realize how we in the armed forces manage to just about even out our salaries till the end of the month. Savings HA HA HA????

    Family life HA HA HA???
    Join us and judge for yourself whether what we ask for all the uncertainities or the X factor is justified or not.

    Entry is open to one and all of course able bodied people only.

    And what a funny of the IAS for the IAS and by the IAS the review committee is going to be : All secretaries to the govt like MHA,Finance, Defence etc. Uniformed people to put their view. Sorry sir you are NOT competent to decide what you should get after all you are in uniform?????

  43. Anonymous11:05 PM

    Lt Col Over The Hill
    Seeks PMR at 20 yrs
    Age at retirement 42
    Basic Pay: Rs 14,300/-
    D Pay : Rs 7,950/- Rank Pay : Rs 1,600/-
    ____________ ___
    Gross Basic Pay for Calculation of Pension RS 23,850/-

    Basic Pension Fundamentals:50% of basic pay for 33 Yrs of service, Proportionately scaled down for early release.
    - Lt Col rank entitled to add factor of 7 to total service rendered.
    - Thus reckonable service at 20 yrs while seeking PMR works out to 27 yrs for basis of calculation of pension.
    - Proportionate decrease in pension therefore 27/33.
    Basic Pension Calculations
    Gross Basic : Rs 23,850/-
    Basic Pension : Rs 9,756/-(appx)
    Commutable Value :Rs 4195/-(appx)
    Residual Pension :
    Rs 9756 - 4195 = Rs 5561/-
    Add 17% DA : Rs 1658/-*
    Worked out on basic pension rate
    * Note DA keeps increases with Cost Index
    Total Monthly Amount Receivable : Rs 7219/-
    Capitalized Value of Commuted pension = Rs 7,55,100/-
    * Commute Factor related to Date of Birth decrease with increase in Age.
    Retirement Gratuity
    - ¼ monthly pay for each 6 month of service rendered.
    - Weightage of 5 to be added to actual service rendered.
    -- Total emolument incl DA to be taken in to acct.
    - Max amount Permissible Rs 3,50,000/-
    ¼ X 25 yrs or 50 Six Month periods X 27900
    = Rs 3,50,000/-
    Encashment of Leave
    - Permitted 265 days if Service more than 20 yrs.
    - Pay for Calculation Net pay incl DA admissible.
    - Roughly 9 Months pay.
    = Rs 2,14,650/-
    AGI Maturity Benefits
    - Based on contributions as per AGI Tables.
    = Rs 2,10,000/- (Approx)
    DSOP Savings
    Indl offrs own effort
    For this Calculation Rs 4,00,000/- a Conservative Estimate.
    Total Lump sum Receivable = Rs 19,29,750/-
    ( Rupees Nineteen Lakhs Plus )

    (I have not considered the sixth pay commission – You may !!! )

    Invest in MIS Post Office Scheme : Rs 17,00,000/-
    Criteria Safety and Maxi yield (8%)
    Gets you Rs 1,37,644 per annum or Rs 11,470/- per month.
    (For the more worldly wise sky is the limit)
    Total Monthly receipts after retirement
    Pension in Bank = Rs 7,219/-
    Interest income = Rs 11,470/-
    Total = RS 18,689/-



    ACCOMODATION - if you ever got one of the entitled class..grow up !! show your family a world exists beyond
    the dilapidated Temp Accns of the Army.( of course..no offence meant mr SS kumar..what an idiot..!!)

    - You always gave it to your maid anyway..!!
    - surely you can do without it.

    - It is heritage and history.

    + Stability in life.
    + Remarkably better educational prospects for your kids.
    + Less Stress and consequent mental peace.
    + Your wifes qualifications are better recognized.
    + Second Career for you and better prospects for your Wife.
    + Financial stability and reduced Income Tax burden.
    + You will be of some help to your family and loved ones in times of need and not sitting 2000 km away.



  44. Anonymous7:40 AM


    Unfortunately the people sitting in the service HQs will put a spoke. They are the one who do it all the time. At present there are 100s of applications waiting at the Service HQs which have been rejected. I hope they wake up.


  45. Anonymous3:55 PM

    You are right buddy. as somone mentioned it earlier in the blog..we have been let down by our own...puppets in the hands of babus...
    they think.."these guys want to quit..?..how can we allow them...it will look as our failure to motivate them...the statistics will go awry...lets just put a complete stop to this..NO ONE LEAVES...!!!!"
    they wont try to solve the problem..they will just sweep it under the carpet..let the next guy who comes take care of it...let me earn my report and get out...!!!
    god save us...!!

  46. one C** like U9:48 PM

    Dear friends
    The blog is getting excited with the heat generated .Let the heat not go to any ones head.Cool down and see how u r cheated.The gameplan of the babus is to lower ur status.How?


    Now see the game played on the working force in Army HQ that is Lt Cols or eqvts in other services

    Babus have given a grade pay of 6600 and not 8300 to the Lt Cols as i explain u below

    Lt Col existing scale is 15100-400-18700 (including rank pay) which is similar or little better than the civil scale S25 that is 15100-400-18300.
    for civil scale S25 “15100-400-18300” grade pay is as high as 8300 which works out to be 45.34 % of 18300.

    In case of Army for a similar scale of Lt Col it is only 6600 which stands to only 35.3% of the max of earlier scale.

    By doing this babus could lower the status of Lt Col and next u take file to a babu u would go 2 a desk lower

    So do not show anger on the blog and take up the matter with ur pay commission cell brains if their is some left

  47. It is not just status. There is a vast difference between the number of years to reach high ranks in Army Vs IAS (India Monoply Service). Also a vast difference between the percent of officers who reach such ranks. So the average emoluments drawn over the entire service is also vastly different.
    There is no such equivalent monopoly service having its stragulating hold over the entire bureaucracy (IPS, IFS etc etc). IAS guys occupy the top slots everywhere and surprisingly in defence too. In no country there is a civilian bureaucrat in between the top Services official and the defence minister equivalent. In both US and UK like everywhere else the Combined Defence Staff (CDS) directly advises the Defence Minister (UK) Secretary of Defence (US) The term secretary in US context is equivalent to minister in UK/India. Civilian bureaucrats in UK and US are also there to advise the ministers but they are not superior or in between the CDS. More over the Civilian bureaucrats are often selected for having some relevant professional background. Many have performed military service too in the past. (But no millitary service in immediate last 10 years in US). In India the IAS is a monopoly whose cadres just rise into top slots as they are pre destined to be the kings. It is a variant of the monarchy system for them - assured kingdoms.

  48. Anonymous2:58 PM

    Hi everybody,

    (including Mr SS Kumar, I hope you are still following this blog, but we see that you are ever so silent)

    I am attaching an article by a former Vice Chief of Army Staff. Article are now getting more articulate, since I suspect that people who mattered did not have time (that is till now) to bother themselves with 'wasteful' banter but now the scene is changing. Without much ado, the article By Lt Gen Oberoi. (The original article was suitable highlighted, underlined etc)

    A shattered army
    Pay commission has ill-served the nation

    by Lt. Gen. (retd) Vijay Oberoi
    THE Indian army, used here generically to include the navy and the air force, has now reached the end of its tether, with the Sixth Pay Commission's recommendations for the defence forces. The citizens of our country have not really understood the magnitude of despair amongst the rank and file of the army. There is great anger and a high degree of frustration at every level, but particularly at the level of the PBORs (personnel below officers' rank) and the junior and middle level officers. Both constitute the 'cutting edge' of the defence forces.

    India has a hundred per cent volunteer army. Officers and men have joined the army for a variety of reasons, the main ones being the honour that comes by wearing the uniform; a desire to serve the nation in the best way possible; family traditions; and of course, suitable remunerations that are compatible with the highly turbulent conditions of service.

    Its ethos has been painfully nurtured by the hierarchy of the army for the last 60 years, despite major provocations from many quarters, especially the self-serving bureaucracy, which the country has to unfortunately endure. The latter has consistently prevailed on the political leadership and subtly instilled fear amongst them that the army needs to be kept down, lest it also follow what militaries in the immediate neighbourhood and in the extended region have done, in usurping power by force.

    This is despite the unflinching loyalty the army has displayed in even the most difficult circumstances. It is surprising that our political leadership, which is so astute in politicking, nurturing vote banks and diffusing highly volatile situations of all types, has been unable to see through this game of the bureaucrats. Or is it that they deliberately do not want to understand it?

    The institutions, structures, ethos and working environment built painstakingly and prevailing in the army, ensures that all ranks fully understand their duties, obligations and power-equations in a democracy like ours. In simple terms, it means that the nation has nothing to fear from the army. The earlier it is understood by the political leadership and all other instruments of the state, the better.

    The defence forces came under the purview of pay commissions with the Third Pay Commission and since then every pay commission, loaded as it was by the bureaucracy, has worked very hard to ensure that there is a gradual decline in the pay, emoluments and the status of all military personnel.

    All requests by the hierarchy of the defence forces to set up separate pay commissions for the military have been studiously ignored and at the behest of the bureaucracy, even a representative of the defence forces has not been permitted to form part of any of the pay commissions. This, when nearly 40 per cent of the government servants under the purview of the pay commission are defence forces personnel!

    That the defence forces have tolerated this skewed arrangement speaks on one side of the perseverance, patience and discipline of the defence forces and, on the other, the utter insensitivity of the political leadership to the only institution that works effectively in our country. The Sixth Pay Commission has of course taken the cake for their utterly callous approach to the guardians of the nation.

    There is no need to emphasise what has already been stated regarding the highly adverse effect the recommendations of the pay commission will have on the intake of officers in the defence forces, except to state that every middle level serving officer I have talked to has either already put in his papers or is planning to do so shortly.

    The disastrous implications need not be amplified when it is well known that our fighting units are already functioning at 50 per cent strength of officers. The PBOR, unfortunately, do not have the option of leaving the service, because they will end up with no jobs, considering the present situation in the country of gross unemployment and under-employment. However, in the long run, the impact of the recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission on the PBOR is bound to be a fall in standards of the recruits who will be willing to serve for the peanuts thrown at them by the Commission.

    The government's response to the large-scale resentment has been the usual ploy of forming a committee! First, a committee of three bureaucrats was formed, but it was the Railway Minister, at whose behest an enlarged Review Committee has now been formed, while the Minister of Defence only repeated homilies and soothing words, as he had done in the past!

    Even the Review Committee has no representative from the defence forces, while the railways, the postal department and sundry others not so well known, have found a place for themselves. So, we are back to square one. This committee will repeat, ad nauseum, what the Commission has stated, perhaps in more flowery language, except for some minimal tinkering that will satisfy no one in the defence forces.

    A continuation of such inadequate and delaying tactics will slowly destroy a first rate army, which has served the nation with sacrifices and élan and has saved the nation umpteen times in these last 60 years. The political leadership is either unable or unwilling to ameliorate the genuine demands of the defence forces.

    Under the circumstances, it may be best to disband the army and let the bureaucracy become 'pseudo soldiers' and look after the security of the nation. In the bargain, they will be able to further improve their cadre too! If the reader discerns a sense of cynicism, déjà vu and desperation, it is indeed intended. Sudden death would any day be a more satisfactory arrangement. The noble "profession of arms" is being turned into a "profession of alms"!

    The writer is a former Vice Chief of Army Staff

  49. Anonymous11:28 AM

    I feel dejected to see our soldiers squabbling over their pay like this. We fully agree that you guys have been given a raw deal. But, whose fault is it? Believe me, its not the politicians’ fault, nor is it the bureaucrats’ fault. It’s a very clear fact of life, particularly in India, we all look after ourselves and our own. Why not? Who else will? So I suggest, instead of blaming others please put your own house in order. The defence forces have come to this juncture only and only because of your so called generals and officers wanting to be generals. They are willing to bend over to any extreme to ensure their personal comfort and benefit, be it the next rank or the next post or the next foreign jaunt or one more “staff car” in their already swollen fleet of cars. We see it personally every day in the ministry. Have you guys ever heard of a senior defence officer taking a real stand against his civilian bosses on a matter of principle?
    Or, for that matter, putting up his resignation on a matter of principle concerning his juniors?
    The politicians and the bureaucrats have just used this to their advantage. Let these guys show some courage henceforth on this front, then you see, no one will dare touch you.
    So please..blame your own careerists… not us.

  50. Anonymous4:22 PM

    I feel good that after my last comment no one has put up any arguments...as you all understand, what i stated is the bare fact. here is an article which my soldier friend would maybe like to go through. You may then realise why those amongst you who want to quit are noy being allowed to do so..even after missing your promotion. The simple reason is this: I quote, " One aspect of being permanently commissioned is that an officer cannot quit even if he is superseded. Army HQ sources say there are nearly 3,000 officers at the levels of lieutenant colonels and colonels waiting to quit as they have been superseded. But the army is reluctant to release them. It's worried that a revamp of manpower policy would mean trimming its top-heavy hierarchy too. Simply put, higher the officer strength, the more posts for brigadiers and generals. Currently, there are 75 major generals and 64 Lt generals which, incidentally, is projected to go up to 204 and 84 respectively. This is very high for any army."
    The full article is reproduced here..


    Saikat Dutta on www.outlookindia.com


    Two weeks ago, AK Antony, the Union Defence Minister stood up in Parliament to answer once again a question that's been repeatedly raised for well over a decade now. Are the Indian army, navy and the air force short of officers? The answer has always been yes. Successive defence ministers have reiterated on the floor of the House that there is a serious shortfall in the forces.

    But on April 16, Antony threw up a surprise.

    He told Parliament that the Indian Military Academy (IMA), which trains officers for the Indian army, was actually running beyond its full capacity. While it can train 1,650 cadets, the IMA is currently training 1,683 cadets. Similarly, the National Defence Academy (NDA) "has also been functioning at full capacity except for the first batch of 2008", said Antony. The subtext of his statement was that there are enough aspirants to join the forces. So if the training academies are running to full capacity, is the "officer shortfall" real?


    Lt General H.S. Bagga, ex-director-general of personnel who spent eight years studying the problem and wrote the seminal Bagga Commission report, feels it "isn't real". "Look at it this way," says Bagga. "Every year, I am taking in nearly 1,600 officers. Most of them are permanent commission officers while some are short service. If I could reverse this and make the majority of them short service and a core group permanent, then my shortages disappear." What he means is if there are fewer permanent commission officers who serve a minimum of 20 years, then the army would not be clogged with too many non-combat seniors—the operative phrase being 'non-combat'. This would also be better use of resources, facilitating more intake of younger officers for combat zones.

    Most of the perceived shortage, says Bagga, is at the 'combat level', from lieutenants, majors and lieutenant colonels. "With a large number of officers stagnating at the higher ranks, my force is getting older and the young ones don't have avenues to grow. This is the problem. Give them an honourable exit policy after 8-10 years of service and you'll see this problem disappear." Bagga's study was amalgamated into the Ajai Vikram Singh Committee report that gave faster promotions to officers. But many feel had Bagga's original recommendations been implemented in toto, there would not have been this so-called shortage.

    One aspect of being permanently commissioned is that an officer cannot quit even if he is superseded. Army HQ sources say there are nearly 3,000 officers at the levels of lieutenant colonels and colonels waiting to quit as they have been superseded. But the army is reluctant to release them. It's worried that a revamp of manpower policy would mean trimming its top-heavy hierarchy too. Simply put, higher the officer strength, the more posts for brigadiers and generals. Currently, there are 75 major generals and 64 Lt generals which, incidentally, is projected to go up to 204 and 84 respectively. This is very high for any army.

    Defence analysts like K. Subrahmanyam have been calling for a smaller army with better teeth-to-tail ratio (more fighting men as compared to logistic support).


    Agrees former director general, military operations (DGMO), Lieutenant General V. Raghavan. He feels the army's lopsided manpower policies have created this "artificial" shortage. "Let's have a core group of permanent commissioned officers and a larger group of short service commission officers. These younger officers will lead the platoons, conduct operations, grow in service. And you can dilute the standards of intake for short service commission officers to improve intake. You don't have to train every one of them to become a field marshal!"

    Raghavan also points out the danger of creating a situation similar to what happened after the Sino-Indian conflict of 1962 when a sudden influx of officers led to severe anomalies in subsequent years. "As these officers were promoted, we ended up having so many senior officers ready to command battalions, which simply weren't there."

    The army says its 'operational' shortfall hovers around 11,000 if an officer does not get promoted, he stagnates for 12 years. He becomes ineligible to serve in a battalion and the army, facing a crunch where it matters, is stuck with redundancy higher up.

    Bagga's report listed five exit policies. This, he says, would ensure that more men join the army, serve 10 years and leave, while a core group continues to grow to occupy the senior ranks.

    Points out Bagga: "I listed out five exit slabs—

    Study leave without any clause to serve further
    An opportunity to take up a university course at the army's cost
    A golden handshake
    Allowing them to appear for any civil service exam in their 13th year of service
    Tie up with corporates to absorb those superseded."


    Like the army, the IAF too claims it has a shortage of 1,528 officers. Asks former air chief S. Krishnaswamy: "Where is the shortage if your squadron strength is steadily falling and your number of pilots are going up?" A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation by him shows "one of the worst pilot-to-cockpit ratios in the world". Air force documents say the number of fighter squadrons comprising 14 aircraft each will go down from the present 30 to 28 by 2015. Points out Krishnaswamy: "The best thing to do is to let people go after 10 years of service. It's the only way we can make things work. By holding back officers forcibly we are creating an artificial shortage at the cost of operational preparedness."

    The air force has a pilot strength of 3,050 pilots. This is way above the 1,700 pilots the force requires. "We need to seriously consider options to run our forces in the most economical manner. Otherwise, subsequent budgets will not be able to support our manpower," says Krishnaswamy. Presently, pilots are being sent on deputation to fly state government aircraft. Jammu & Kashmir, Chhattisgarh, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu are among the states which are served by IAF pilots.

    The world over, modern militaries are going in for a leaner and meaner force. But the Indian army is still dependent on conservative World War II templates, especially when it comes to manpower recruitment and deployment. With a fat midriff and a heavy top, the army and the air force has flab which it owes to itself to get rid off immediately.

  51. Anonymous10:01 PM

    Why so much disparity between total emoluments drawn by IAS, IPS and Armed Forces?
    Pay scales become a non issue if one considers that all IAS cadres becomes Jt Secretary (equivalent to Major General) in about 16 years whereas only 3% become Major Generals in Army that too in 33 years. Imagine the difference in average emoluments drawn? Then civil officers retire in 60 yrs age which mean so many more increments! Imagine the difference in average pensions!
    The bulk of army officers will reach no more than Lt Cols Rank. Whereas as many percentage will become Lt Gen equivalent in IAS. Even IPS is not far behind IAS. There is simply too much disparity. This wasn't always so. This has been achieved not in pay commissions but between pay commissions through innumerable cadre restructuring. Something like AV Singh Committee in Army. Only IAS and IPS are light years ahead. In IAS through cadre restructuring, it is like Maj Generals rank commands a Battalion. Brigadier is company commander. Now the situation in IAS cannot be reversed. Similar re-structuring by army is the only answer.

  52. Anonymous1:27 PM

    It happens Only in INDIA ****

    Salary & Govt. Concessions for a Member of Parliament (MP)

    Monthly Salary : 12,000

    Expense for Constitution per month : 10,000

    Office expenditure per month : 14,000

    Traveling concession (Rs. 8 per km) : 48,000 ( eg.For a visit from Kerala to Delhi & return: 6000 km)

    Daily DA TA during parliament meets : 500/day

    Charge for 1 class (A/C) in train: Free (For any number of times)
    (All over India )

    Charge for Business Class in flights : Free for 40 trips / year (With wife or P.A.)

    Rent for MP hostel at Delhi : Free

    Electricity costs at home : Free up to 50,000 units

    Local phone call charge : Free up to 1 ,70,000 calls.

    TOTAL expense for a MP [having no qualification] per year : 32,00,000 [i.e. 2.66 lakh/month]

    TOTAL expense for 5 years : 1,60,00,000

    For 534 MPs, the expense for 5 years :
    8,54,40,00,000 (nearly 855 crores)


  53. Anonymous7:58 PM

    Hi all,

    This is a lovely poem. Enjoy

    What I am worth…
    - Akshay Phadke

    I hear, we have crossed the sixtieth year
    Standing guard without any fear,
    Another day in the desert sun,
    Or a night at height, with a freezing gun,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth"

    For the Battles and Wars that I fight,
    Never asking which one is right,
    From Dawn to Dusk and then to Dawn,
    Your Bishop, Your Knight Your Eternal Pawn,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth"

    While you fill your coffers today,
    Wondering where and how to make,
    Another fortune, another buy,
    Your aspirations are now touching the Sky,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth"

    You make a mention on your political line,
    Come to my post, wine and dine,
    Then run to your stock, while I stand your guard,
    Killing and dying but still fighting hard,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth."

    The other day I was on TV too,
    You came up to me with your educated crew,
    Told me to speak cos you seemed to care,
    Wrote your story stripped me bare.
    I was so naive I didn't know,
    For you it was the nine o'clockshow,
    The country wants to hear some line,
    Before they sleep, knowing they are fine,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth."

    My Men tell me, that they are strong,
    Would fight for their country, for all that's wrong,
    While I tell them to stand and fight,
    You ignore my existence, my very right,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth."

    I thought I would tell my children in time,
    How I fought for this country, this love of mine,
    I wonder, if I should mention it though,
    Don't want them embarrassed, while they start to grow,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth."

    I was your ambition, your child hood dream,
    Your Pilot, Your Sailor your Jawan in green,
    Where did we part as friends, our ways
    I never let you down a single day,
    Tell me my India "What I am worth"

  54. Anonymous8:03 PM

    Hi all,

    Another article by a senior naval officer this time. Read on.

    Regards. Anon

    Monday, June

    09, 2008

    EXCLUSIVE: A Reflection by Admiral Arun Prakash on Veterans, Honour,
    Political Antipathy and the 6th Pay Commission

    It is LiveFist's privilege that former Chief of Naval Staff Admiral
    Arun Prakash has contributed this new and typically insightful essay
    to us. A word -- this is probably one of the most measured pieces I've
    ever read on a subject of which most of us are currently bombarded
    with opinion. An absolute must read.

    Adm. Arun Prakash (Retd)

    The country-wide demonstrations by ex-Servicemen (ESM) on 26th April
    and 7th May 08 to protest against the 6th Pay Commission report, were,
    by all accounts, conducted in a dignified and orderly manner; and that
    is exactly how it should have been. Now one hears some talk of a
    "hunger strike" by ESM, but it is my fervent hope that this will not
    come to pass.

    I have a nagging feeling that by these uncharacteristic and
    extraordinary gestures we, the ESM, have diminished ourselves in the
    eyes of our countrymen. One can just visualize people who have never
    had the privilege of wearing uniform or of serving the nation's
    tricolour, smugly saying to themselves: "We always knew that their
    attitude of soldierly discipline and fortitude was only a facade. Deep
    down they are just like any of us."

    I am aware that these remark are likely to upset many of our Veterans
    who, despite advancing years, are going to great lengths to make a
    dramatic gesture on behalf of their comrades-in- arms. To them, let me
    just say that my criticism is directed, not so much at their actions,
    as at the insensitive and callous system which has driven them, in
    extremis, to such an unfortunate step.

    An Ungrateful Nation?

    In civilized nations the world over, the soldier, sailor and airman –
    and more so the Veteran – is an object of spontaneous respect,
    affection, admiration and the highest public esteem. These sentiments
    are made manifest by the people and the government of a grateful
    nation, in countless ways, in thought word and deed. There are
    monuments celebrating victories, statues of military heroes, war
    memorials for those who fell on the field of battle, avenues and
    squares named after soldiers and concessions for Servicemen in every
    sphere. Above all, Servicemen receive warm respect, affection and
    consideration from the general public as well as the media. None of
    this exists in India today.

    I have no doubt whatsoever, that in cities like London, Paris,
    Washington or Moscow the dismal spectacle of Veterans reduced to
    "demonstrating" in public to ask for their dues, would have wrought
    agony in their countrymen. The citizens of New Delhi, God bless them,
    chose to ignore this "cry from the heart" of old warriors. The media,
    otherwise so intrusive and inquisitive, and so proud of their
    "independence" almost completely blacked out this significant gesture
    by the Veterans. The one TV channel which planned to air a related
    programme chickened out at the last minute. We can only speculate
    about the reasons for the media's sudden coyness.

    From Major Som Nath Sharma who died fighting the Pakistani tribals in
    Badgam in 1947, to Captain Vikram Batra who laid down his life in the
    icy wastes of Kargil in 1999 there is a long Roll of Honour which
    lists the heroes and battle-casualties of the Indian Armed Forces.
    Just reading about their exploits of valour and self-sacrifice is
    enough to give one goose pimples. It is the inspiration provided by
    such brave men which motivates our Armed Forces to great heights of
    dedication and commitment to the motherland. But does anyone else in
    the country remember their sacrifice? Or care?

    Not even a decade has passed since Tiger Hill and Tololing were won
    back by our soldiers in the face of intense enemy opposition at a
    horrific cost in lives. But our citizens do not have the time to even
    light a candle in memory of those who fell in Kargil, or a hundred
    other battles, because their adulation seems to be reserved
    exclusively for cricketers, cine stars and politicians. One often
    wonders if patriotic young soldiers should be shedding blood for the
    safety and well being of a society as ungrateful as ours?


    Let us not be fooled by the razzmatazz that economists are feeding us
    about India's 9% GDP growth, or get carried away by the fabulous
    salaries offered by MNCs to young IIT and IIM graduates. As Indians,
    let us instead firmly bear in mind that 400-500 million of our
    brothers and sisters still survive on less than 40 rupees a day. I
    personally think that within the means available to the nation, the
    Armed Forces, and most of the ESM are paid enough. I say this without
    prejudice to the perfectly justified protest of the Armed Forces
    against the insidious manner in which the IAS has been steadily
    propelling itself upward to their detriment.

    Really, it is not the money that bothers us. What the Serviceman and
    the Veteran find inexplicable and galling is something altogether
    different. They wonder why there has been a steady and continuing
    erosion in the soldier's position and status in society while the
    responsibilities, hardships and hazards of soldiering have grown over
    the years.

    Apart from their crucial role in defending the nation against every
    threat and calamity, the Armed Forces are making a vital contribution
    to the country's social fabric. It is they who have promoted the
    ideals of integrity, discipline, professionalism and excellence, sadly
    lacking in every other walk of life. In the midst of prevailing chaos,
    the Armed Forces have remained an embodiment of order and discipline,
    and have faithfully upheld India's secular and democratic traditions.
    There just isn't any group, organization or set of individuals which
    has sustained the integrity, security and stability of the Indian
    state, with the steadfastness and loyalty demonstrated by the Indian
    Armed Forces.

    Is it then surprising if the Soldier agonizes over the fact that in
    spite of his huge contribution to the nation, his Izzat has been
    deliberately denuded by vested interests, and Iqbal denied to him by
    his countrymen?

    I do not claim to have answers to the Soldier's dilemma, but I think
    that the issues involved have assumed such importance that they need
    to be examined in some depth. Let me place before the reader, four
    factors which I think have contributed to the steady and ongoing
    erosion of the soldier's image, and the degradation of his status in
    Indian society, with consequential effects.

    Political Antipathy

    Mahatma Gandhi's firm adherence to the noble principle of non-violence
    throughout India's independence struggle has no parallel in history.
    He was a great man with profound values, but misinterpretation of his
    unique vision led to the emergence of two surreal perceptions amongst
    India's political leadership.

    For one they were convinced that since a non-violent India would have
    no enemies, the armed forces would become redundant after
    independence. Their second conviction was that the Indian Army was a
    mercenary force which had been used as a tool by the British to
    suppress the freedom movement, and deserved to be shown its place.
    They were utterly wrong on both counts, and such myths need to be
    demolished, because a man in uniform can today sense the cognitive
    lack of empathy, if not antipathy, to his cause in the in the
    political establishment of all shades.

    Major General KM Cariappa (later the first Indian Commander-in- chief)
    called on Gandhiji in December 1947 and sought his advice on how he
    should put across the concept of ahimsa to his soldiers whose dharma
    was to fight for the nation. The Mahatma pondered over the question
    and replied: "I am still groping in the dark for the answer. I will
    find it and give it to you one day." A month later he fell to an
    assassin's bullet, and Cariappa never received an answer. But by then
    the first of our illusions had already been shattered in October 1947,
    when Pakistani hordes came pouring into Baramulla and it was only the
    Indian Army's gallantry which saved the Valley.

    The politicians were right that the British Indian Army, true to its
    salt, had served the King-Emperor loyally in both World Wars. But
    after the string of early British defeats in WW II, Indian prisoners
    of war (PoWs) in Singapore, Germany and Italy were confronted with the
    most awesome moral dilemma that a soldier can ever face; a choice
    between the oath they had given to the King and the chance to fight
    for freedom of the motherland, being offered by Netaji Subhash Bose.

    After agonizing over this veritable dharma sankat and fully
    recognizing the terrible consequences of either option, many Indian
    officers and jawans decided for their motherland, with the result

    3000 Indian PoWs were formed into the Legion Freies Indien or Free
    Indian Legion as a unit of the German Wehrmacht.
    A unit named the Battaglione Azad Hindoustan was formed out of Indian
    PoWs in Italy.
    40,000 out of 45,000 PoWs in Singapore joined the Azad Hind Fauj or
    INA as it was commonly known..

    The story of these expatriate Indian warriors is a romantic but
    forgotten chapter in India's freedom struggle. Suffice it to say that
    the Arzi Hukumat-e-Azad Hind (Provisional Government of Free India)
    formed in Singapore by Bose in 1943 declared war on the British
    Empire, and the INA units fought a bitter campaign against them in
    Burma with "Dilli Chalo" as their inspiring slogan.

    In early 1946, ratings of the Royal Indian Navy mutinied, and the
    insurrection spread right across the country, with units of the RIAF,
    Army Signal Corps and EME joining their naval comrades in revolt.
    These events not only inspired and galvanized the freedom movement in
    India, but also struck fear into British hearts. General Wavell, the
    C-in-C admitted in a secret report: "It is no use shutting one's eye
    to the fact that any Indian soldier worth his salt is a Nationalist…"

    Disciplined Services never dwell on mutinies, regardless of the cause,
    and that is why these events rarely find mention in our Armed Forces,
    but the powerful impact on the British Sarkar of these acts of great
    moral courage, must not be disparaged, belittled or forgotten. So
    anyone who says that the Indian soldier did not contribute to India's
    freedom movement is either ignorant or deliberately suppressing the

    The phase immediately post-Independence too, was extremely difficult
    for our fledgling nation. To forget the sterling role played by the
    Armed Forces during the violence and turbulence of partition, and in
    integrating the recalcitrant princely states would be an act of rank
    ingratitude. Over the years, as our glaring strategic naiveté
    repeatedly led to adventurism by our neighbours in 1947, 1962, 1965
    and 1999, it was invariably the gallantry and patriotism of the Armed
    Forces which saved the nation from disintegration and dishonour.

    The Bureaucracy Strikes

    From many post-Independence historical accounts it appears that the
    politician possibly felt not only ill at ease with the soldier, but
    also disdained the "military intellect". This was an ideal situation
    for the civil servants to exploit to the hilt.

    Although the British had devised a workable interim organizational
    structure for the divided Indian armed forces, it fell to the
    bureaucracy to work out the nuts and bolts, and to implement it.
    Showing the Armed Forces "their place" was simple for the mandarins of
    the Indian Civil Service (ICS). Possibly holding out the spectre of a
    military coup to the gullible politician, and deliberately
    misinterpreting the principle of "civilian control", they created a
    structure which suited them ideally, and brought the Armed Forces
    under bureaucratic control.

    In the UK the Navy, Army and Air Force were then run respectively by
    the Admiralty, the War Office and the Air Ministry. Each of these were
    ministries, headed by a Minister of Cabinet rank designated by
    convention as the "Secretary of State for…" and often referred to as
    just "Secretary".. In India the ICS created a unique structure with a
    "Ministry of Defence" composed of a number of Departments, manned
    exclusively by itinerant civilian generalists, and headed by a
    bureaucrat of Secretary rank. External to the MoD and subordinate to
    the Department of Defence they created three "Attached Offices" one
    each for the Army, Navy and Air Force HQs.

    So at one fell swoop, the bureaucracy had:

    * Placed the Service HQs well outside the Government of India, whom
    they could only approach through the MoD.
    * Effectively subordinated the Service Chiefs to decision-making at
    the lowest rungs of the MoD, since every file "submitted" by the
    Service HQ had to be routed bottom-upwards in the MoD, starting at
    Under-Secretary level.
    * Kept the Service Chiefs and the Defence Minister safely distanced
    from each other.
    * The political establishment of the day was probably informed that
    the affairs of the Services were being run by a Secretary, "just like
    in the UK" and they must have been relieved to have the bureaucracy
    manage complex defence matters for them. The military leadership of
    the time was probably too naïve and inexperienced to even realize the
    iniquity of the system imposed on them. The feeble noises that we have
    made thereafter, have naturally fallen on the deaf ears of the IAS
    bureaucracy; successor service to the "heaven born" ICS.

    No one seems to have pointed out the fact that in the best and oldest
    democracies of the world, "civilian control" over the Armed Forces is
    best exercised by the simple expedient of having the head of the Armed
    Forces (be it a CDS, Chairman Joint Chiefs or Chef d'Etat Majeur) as
    the right hand of the President or the Prime Minister, and charged
    with rendering advice on strategic/military matters.

    The Damage Inflicted by Media

    Possibly the greatest damage to the public image of the Armed Forces
    as well as to their self-esteem has been inflicted by the Indian
    media. This predatory beast finds, in the Armed Forces, instant
    gratification and tremendous payback for very little effort. They see
    an institution, and a set of people who set for themselves,
    extraordinarily high standards of conduct, and when accused of
    misdemeanor, react with pain and anguish. What can be more satisfying
    for the slavering media hounds?

    That their uniformed victim is bound and gagged, and unable to
    respond, is even better for them because he can then be maligned with
    impunity for the sake of mindless sensationalism. Regrettably, many of
    the young media-persons are neither well informed about the Armed
    Forces, nor do they undertake serious study of the subject.

    It is for this reason that one rarely sees serious, well-researched
    and thought provoking articles on defence matters. On the other hand
    it appears that every trivial issue relating to the Armed Forces has
    to be either a sensational "scam", "cover-up" or "serious
    embarrassment", otherwise it is perhaps not considered news-worthy by
    the editors. The hostile attitude of the media towards the only
    institution in the country which undertakes quick investigation and
    fixation of accountability, and metes out swift justice is

    Today any disgruntled person, vested interest or even agent of a
    foreign power can entice the India media with the promise of a
    "defence scandal", and they will happily proceed to malign the Armed
    Forces. Neither the good name and reputation of its leadership, nor
    morale of the rank and file of the Armed Forces, nor indeed any
    concern for the truth are matters of slightest concern for the
    irresponsible journalists or their arrogant editors.

    Having done their best to denigrate the nation's Armed Forces in the
    public eye, the media will then report with great glee, the number of
    unfilled vacancies in National Defence Academy and Indian Military
    Academy. Need the Armed Forces look any further? The enemy is within.

    The Inner Discord

    Such is the power of Jointmanship, that whenever the Chairman COSC has
    occasion to use the phrase, "the three Chiefs are of the view…"
    whether in writing or verbally, all obstacles in the MoD and elsewhere
    tended to melt away. Unfortunately, there are not too many instances
    when this phrase can actually be used.

    Disagreements between the Chiefs on professional issues will take
    place, and can be resolved in the COSC room, but it is discord among
    the three Services more than any other factor that is exploited to the
    fullest by the political establishment and the bureaucracy, and which
    has led to the devaluation which we lament today. On any difficult
    issue taken up by the Armed Forces the attempt by the MoD will be to
    strike separate bargains with the Services and defuse the issue.

    So if the Services keep sliding down the Warrant of Precedence, or one
    rank one pay is denied to ESM, or the War Memorial is kept in limbo,
    the Services have only their own disunity to blame.

    This is a subject on which volumes could be written to the delight of
    our detractors, and therefore need not be discussed here. In the
    context under discussion, suffice it to say that a sea change can come
    about, if the Service Chiefs, placing the larger interests of the
    Armed Forces above all other considerations, jointly request the
    government to take forward the process of integration to implement the
    following at the earliest:

    A full time Chairman COSC who can devote 100% of his time to common
    issues affecting the three Services, and then spend as much time as
    required in pursuing them with the Government.

    Actual integration of the Service HQ with the MoD (the current term
    "Integrated HQ of MoD" is a complete charade), so that civilian and
    uniformed functionaries can be deployed interchangeably in the

    These are by no means magic mantras and will neither end discord nor
    bring harmony into the Services overnight. But they are the first
    steps to ensure that the Armed Forces speak with one voice and thus
    protect themselves against exploitation.

    The 6th Pay Commission

    I come finally to the burning issue of the day, the 6th Pay
    Commission, because the Internet is rife with disinformation today.

    Setting out at great length, the historical and contemporary reasons
    for his request, on 12th April 2006 the Chairman Chiefs of Staff
    Committee (COSC) wrote a letter to the Raksha Mantri (RM), seeking his
    "…personal intervention for the appointment of a Service Officer as a
    constituted member of the Sixth Central Pay Commission, likely to be
    announced shortly." The letter went on to remind the RM that, "…while
    the first two Pay Commissions were dedicated exclusively to the Armed
    Forces, from the third CPC onwards, the emoluments of the Armed Forces
    became just one more issue to be examine, but a lack of Service
    representation was perhaps one of the main reasons for the
    dissatisfaction expressed by the Services post 5th CPC award."

    Four weeks later, on 16th June 2006, the Chairman followed up this
    letter with a reminder, forwarding the names of three serving and two
    retired officers as possible candidates, with the request that, 'the
    RM may like to have the panel vetted by the MoD in order to select the
    best qualified candidate" to serve on the 6th Pay Commission.

    During frequent discussions that took place in the three months that
    remained to him as RM, the Minister did convey to the Chiefs that he
    was experiencing difficulties in convincing his cabinet colleagues
    regarding this issue, but expressed optimism that he would find a way
    for the CPC to receive a direct input from the Services.

    It is a tradition in the MoD not to respond to any communication from
    the Service Chiefs in writing, and therefore the Service HQs will have
    no record of what transpired within the MoD. However, a letter from
    the Chairman COSC has to be placed on file and discussed at length
    between the bureaucracy before a recommendation is made to the
    Minister. At this juncture, only a request to the MoD under the RTI
    can bring out the record on file, as to what the MoD recommended and
    why this request was denied.

    The fact however remains that for the sixth time in succession, the
    Armed Forces remained unrepresented on a Pay Commission. The resulting
    unhappiness amongst the Services and the ESM was a foregone


    Bitterly recounting poetic verse about soldiers "slighted" or
    "ignored" by an ungrateful nation is not going to stir many
    consciences in India. Also one cannot help having serious reservations
    about public protests through the medium of marches, dharnas or
    hunger-strikes by ESM. Whether they have the desired impact or not
    (many states imposed Section 144 in affected towns) such displays of
    "trade unionism" will erase the last distinction between the proud
    ethos of the Armed Forces/ESM and the rest; both in our own minds as
    well as in the minds of our countrymen.

    It is rightly said that there is nothing easier than for Veterans,
    free of any responsibility, to render advice to their serving comrades
    from the safety and security of retirement. Therefore, having drawn
    attention to the factors which need to be tackled by the Services with
    resolve and unity, I shall refrain from adding anything further.

    Except to quote a few lines from the autobiography of General Lord
    Ismay, in the hope that they will be read by those at the helm of the
    nation: "A country may have powerful armed forces, led by brilliant
    commanders; it may have statesmen of great competence; it may have
    immense wealth; it may have industries which are most efficiently run;
    but unless the statesmen and soldiers at the summit work together in a
    spirit of mutual esteem, the essential coordination will be lacking,
    and there is bound to be deadly waste of blood and treasure."

    General Ismay should know; he was Churchill's Chief of Staff,
    confidante and alter ego right through World War II.

    ** "Sarvatra Izzat-O-Iqbal" is the hybrid Sanskrit-Persian
    post-Independence motto of the Regiment of Artillery, which means:
    "Honour and Esteem Everywhere".
    Posted by Shiv Aroor at 11:53 AM

  55. 6th Pay Commission

    By the 6th pay commission a discrimination has been created amongst the
    pensioners. 6th pay commission's differential benefits to pensioners from
    January 1st 2006 is in contravention of laws laid down by honorable
    Supreme Court....

    READ MORE >> www.right2info.com

  56. Anonymous2:45 PM

    The 6th CPC is totally for only royal govt servants ie above
    Subordinate officers and above. On the account of Military pay structue, I have intratected with some non-infantry retired army personnel reveals that during their service they have never seen a hard field like warlike situation. But they have still getting all benefits like MSP, Higher Pay scales as compared to civilians, CSD benefits, re-employment in key govt structures. There is no one look after who is always sacrificing ownself for the nations like ITBP,BSF and SSB without getting any one of aforesaid benefits but doing more sacrifices as compared to army personnel. Why? It is clearly evinced that in india, the ministers have no time to look after their para troopers these all due to the reason of one home minister how look after more than 50 departments. The another reason is all CPC are minister led.

  57. Anonymous3:37 PM

    Stop Ranting For Higher Salary, Army, Air Force and Navy Personnels are already over payed
    FOR ALL THOSE WHO don't know about National Defence Academy and Combined Defence Services, there exams receive applications of at least 4 lakh aspirants who want to join army as an officer. Out of those only 1500 are able to get selection for training in the IMA, OTA or NDA. How can you justify that youngsters are not aspiring to become part of the Armed Forces.
    The fact is that out of these 4 lakh candidates atleast 15000 are called for the SSB interview and most of the time only 4000 or 5000 people are able to stay in the SSB interview beyond day one.
    Rest of the 10000 people are rejected on the basis of simple reasoning test and group discussion as the 'EXPERTS OF PSYCHOLOGY' who are part of the selection panels of army are able to judge the merit of people in just 2 hours by mere observation.
    Although, the same experts are not able to prune out the anti national elements who are entering the armed forces.
    Its a real shame that there are many senior personnels from armed forces who always lobby to get the higher perks and packages as if they are doing something what others are scared of doing or others are incapable of doing.

    Believe it or not India has got millions of youth and out of those many are city bred English speaking individuals who are having all the capabilities of becoming an officer and if the government feels that there are people who might leave the job of armed forces just because of low salary, let them leave.
    If the government wants to recruit officers who don't rant for higher salary, it will have to formulate a new strategy of recruiting people in the armed forces. It would be better for India if the government get rids of the colonial style of recruitment process which doesn't match with the mainstream culture of India.

  58. i have put-up 23 years service in defence. now I have taken retirement from defence in JCO rank now medom mamta is giving haimer in my hand.
    recruiting as gang man/trackman
    in ex serviceman quota.